Networking Session

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[12:25] Foxx Bode: Welcome all, Today we do Networking class :) make sure to have your snacks & soda ready, as for most its all about things you don't want to know about, but have to if you want to live here.

[12:26]  Foxx Bode: voice is disabled here. So i will type. sorry in advance for all they gazillions of typo's im about to make.
[12:30]  Foxx Bode: Also i've been lazy, and haven't built a new diagram, so if you attended last year, you will recognize this one :)
[12:31]  Foxx Bode: first i will explain why i specifically do this class
[12:31]  Foxx Bode: Every other day, i assist people in setting up, or troubleshooting their regions.
[12:32]  Foxx Bode: Mostly with teamviewer, as after 7 years, it gets tiresome to explain.
[12:32]  Foxx Bode: now most users can get a region online. They follow whatever guides, and see their region on the map.
[12:33]  Foxx Bode: but cant get there.
[12:33]  Foxx Bode: and thats where the networking part, this class is about.
[12:35]  OSgrid: I am the OSgrid router. I am on public IP adress 64.31.16.122, and my internal range is 10.183.247.x 
[12:35]  dan banner: i often hear "i see my region on the map but cant teleport to it"
[12:35]  Foxx Bode: Mostly the processes of how to configure your setup are described well, but people have little clue what they need to do, when it t comes to IP addresses and routers.
[12:36]  Foxx Bode: as every router has a different interface, and different names for essentially the same thing. Port forwarding.
[12:37]  Foxx Bode: Another thing i get a lot is people telling me they changed absolutely nothing, and all suddenly fails. So the grid has some issue.
[12:38]  Foxx Bode: It doesn't. Really. Hardly ever.
[12:38]  Foxx Bode: if your local region fails, its likely due to some problem at your end.
[12:38]  Hans Nerido: router restart = new IP = trouble.........
[12:39]  Foxx Bode: Ok, lets first talk about when you setup a region. When you install it, during configuration it will ask for a local IP and an External IP
[12:40]  Ni Lemon: here you can learn about your last week questions  ㋡
[12:41]  Foxx Bode: most (new) people dont' know their local IP and just hit enter. Osgrid than uses 0.0.0.0 which means it utilizes the "active network adapter" whatever its IP might be.
[12:42]  Foxx Bode: which is convenient as many users have a dynamically assigned IP address, by a service on their router called DHCP.
[12:44]  Foxx Bode: they do figure their external IP address, with www.whatismyip.com or whatever service. so they get the simulator up, and their region appears on map.
[12:47]  Foxx Bode: now there is only 1 thing that can fail thus far, and that is that at startup, the firewall will ask to allow access to allow opensim.exe on the network. If you deny this, you will manually need to write access rules for it.
[12:49] Hans Nerido: its up from the system too Foxx, in windows server 2012 i can say i alow, but need to open the firewall ports too
[12:50] Foxx Bode: assuming a user has got his region on the map, means the simulator contacted and reached the grid, and registered his region successfully, without errors. Nothing more.
[12:51] Foxx Bode: I believe nearly anyone in this room is able to get this far.
[12:52] Foxx Bode: yes, now we get to the networking part.
[12:52] Foxx Bode: Lets imagine for a bit that networking works exactly like postal office.
[12:53] Foxx Bode: everybody has a unique address
[12:53] Foxx Bode: so everybody can reach each other, as long as we have each others addresses.
[12:54] Foxx Bode: when we configure the simulator at install, we actually just give it parameters, and addresses.
[12:55] Foxx Bode: its name, its unique ID, its public IP on the internet, its local IP in the local network, its location on the map etc.
[12:57] Ni Lemon: people needs to know how to get their Internal IP address I think
[12:58] Foxx Bode: Yes, we get there now.
[12:58] Foxx Bode: As when the region is up, you will need to configure your router in a way, it sends traffic destined for the server, to the IP of your local machine in the network.
[12:59] Foxx Bode: and for that you need to know it's local IP address. No router will accept 0.0.0.0 :)
[13:00] Foxx Bode: lets look at the diagram behind me for a sec
[13:00] Foxx Bode: over here we have the grid, and its servers in blue. The orange box is its router in the datacenter.
[13:01] Foxx Bode: here we have our PC, with a modem router between us and the internet
[13:02] Foxx Bode: the external IP address we give in at the installation, is on the outside of our router.
[13:02] Foxx Bode: it is given to us by our internet service provider
[13:03] Avia Bonne: how can you check that?
[13:04] Foxx Bode: by visitng links like www.whatismyip.comm, www.myip.dk, www.canyouseeme.org etc.
[13:04] Foxx Bode: our router, performs NAT which means Native or Network Address Translation. It translates this public IP address to a so called 'Local address'.
[13:06] Avia Bonne: for the record, do we have an external and an internal ipadres and are they the same?
[13:06] Foxx Bode: yes you do, and no there never the same.
[13:06] Ni Lemon: not the same
[13:07] Foxx Bode: this NAT is done, so we wouldn't run out of IP addresses so fast. The router maintains a table of who requests what and maps its single public IP address to multiple Internal ones
[13:07] Avia Bonne: so if you check to whatsmyipaddresm, you get the internal?
[13:07] Foxx Bode: external.
[13:07] Avia Bonne: ok
[13:08] Foxx Bode: You can actually see if an IP address is internal or external.
[13:08] Avia Bonne: what does the internal addresses do?
[13:09] Foxx Bode: they can be bigger, but local networks on consumer routers are rarely configured bigger than that.
[13:09] Avia Bonne: I understand ;-) but I want to know what both do ;-)
[13:09] Tannoy OSgrider: Foxx i think that you need to explain difference between local and external address.
[13:09] Foxx Bode: ok. the external address faces to the Internet
[13:11] Foxx Bode: its what the world uses to communicate to each other.
[13:11] Foxx Bode: The internal IP address is the network behind your router
[13:11] Avia Bonne: from router to pc?
[13:12] Foxx Bode: all your computers, phones laptops are on their own network. inside the router.
[13:12] Foxx Bode: and they all talk outside, through the external IP address of the router
[13:13] Foxx Bode: everything responds back to your router. And the router splits the traffic back to the machines on the internal network.
[13:13] Avia Bonne: yes thats what I wanted to hear
[13:13] Foxx Bode: now when you request a webpage, www.osgrid.org, we get a request from your public IP address. Not your internal
[13:14] Foxx Bode: we serve the page to the public IP ( outside of your router ) and it sends it back to the machine that requested it.
[13:14] Foxx Bode: internally.
[13:15] Foxx Bode: Internal IP addresses aways start with 192.168.x.x 172.16.x.x or 10.x.x.x
[13:15] Foxx Bode: this is defined in some standard.
[13:16] Foxx Bode: so if you see an IP starting with these exact numbers, you know it is an Internal IP address which will always be located on an Internal network.
[13:16] Arielle Popstar: what happens when the external IP is on my own network?
[13:17] Foxx Bode: than you exist on a public network, without NAT. for you with would mean you leave Internal IP open, or possibly even need to set the public as internal in region.ini
[13:19] Arielle Popstar: meaning  that my region.ini externalhostname=96.745.67.12
[13:19] Foxx Bode: that is a public / External Ip.
[13:20] Arielle Popstar: nods
[13:20] Foxx Bode: its the outside of your router.
[13:21] Foxx Bode: now when we install a simulator, this simulator is a server.
[13:21] Foxx Bode: it does not connect somewhere and request stuff. Its just sits and waits until it can "serve"
[13:22] Foxx Bode: So i installed this thing here
[13:22] Computer with Antivirus & Firewall: I am the client / server/ both. My firewall / security suite determines the amount of access. I can block or allow access to your simulator by access rules on either the ports, or the process of opensim. By default, i block all incoming trafic that does not originate from within my own network.
[13:23] Foxx Bode: that machine runs my sim. now the simulator knows its IP' addresses, as i put them in the ini.
[13:23] Router: I am the Router. I translate your internal Ip adress to a public one (NAT) and determine where incound traffic needs to be sent. You have to explain me where to forward the incoming traffic on various ports needs to be sent to. I tend to have multiple functions like modem, router, firewall, NAT appliance, switch, and wireless access point
[13:24] Foxx Bode: my router, that handles all connections and is in front of myy machine, knows nothing of this server.
[13:24] Foxx Bode: or that it is listening on port 9000 which i have set in the region.ini
[13:25] Foxx Bode: so people install the software, teleport to the region on the map and bounce on the outside of the router.
[13:25] Foxx Bode: it gets traffic offered on its public IP address for port 9000.
[13:25] Foxx Bode: but it doesn't know what to do with it, so it trashes all.
[13:26] Foxx Bode: you fail to connect.
[13:26] Foxx Bode: now we need to tell that router it sends all traffic it receives on port 9000, to the local ip address of the server.
[13:27] Foxx Bode: for that we need to know what our local address is, and what the router address is
[13:27] Foxx Bode: in windows we use the command prompt to find it
[13:28] Foxx Bode: you press start (/run) type CMD and hit enter
[13:28] Foxx Bode: it opens the command line interface.
[13:28] Foxx Bode: black dos screen like thinghy
[13:29] Foxx Bode: in there you type the following command :
[13:29] Foxx Bode: ipconfig /all
[13:29] Foxx Bode: all sorts of stuff will scroll
[13:29] Foxx Bode: its a list of all active network adapters on your pc
[13:30] Foxx Bode: if you scroll back, you will find your current active adapter has a Local IPv4 address that in many cases with start with 192.168.1
[13:31] Foxx Bode: write down that IPv4 address. Below it is a subnet mask, and below that is the Gateway
[13:31] Foxx Bode: the gateway address is the local IP address of the router in most networks.
[13:32] Foxx Bode: its the inside / internal IP address of the router itself
[13:33] Foxx Bode: the gateway is the destination for any traffic not destined inside the local network. ( remember that line )
[13:34] Foxx Bode: so if i send packets out my machine addressed to any other network than my Local one, it will be shot off to the gateway ( router) for further handling.
[13:35] Foxx Bode: ok, back to the router. we found its IP address with the IPconfig command. now we can open it in a browser, mostly
[13:35] Foxx Bode: http://192.168.1.1
[13:36] Foxx Bode: you typically hit a login page when you open your browser address
[13:36] Edwards Unpluged : Foxx this happens to all Routers?
[13:37] Foxx Bode: ya
[13:37] Foxx Bode: well 99%
[13:37] Foxx Bode: some work via web account with ISP, like in belgium
[13:37] Greybeard Thinker: some will have IP's set in the other private ranges of 10.10.X.X
[13:37] Greybeard Thinker: like Telstra in Australia
[13:38] Edwards Unpluged : I got with a ZZHone and I can not open it
[13:39] Foxx Bode: if you cannot manage your router, and your ISP refuse, thats were r it ends for you. get hosted regions.
[13:39] Arielle Popstar: the default gateway IP  found  in the cmd  window  should  bring up the  router page?
[13:39] Foxx Bode: yes, typically it does
[13:39] Foxx Bode: if it doesn't do on http, try https
[13:40] Foxx Bode: and if you already  run services on such ports, maybe try port 4433 or 4443 or something.
[13:40] Foxx Bode: or 8080 if on http.
[13:40] Foxx Bode: the good news for you all is, your routers manual is online here : https://portforward.com/
[13:41] Total Sorbet: many an exciting read there :)
[13:41] Foxx Bode: left menu, list of all routers, pick brand, pick model, and you can read
[13:42] alfiere rossini: total pretend to read a good novel
[13:42] Random ISP device: Cable Modem / wireless router combo, I am on public IP address 171.80.22.13 My internal ranges are 192.168.1.x for cabled, and 192.168.2.x for wireless connections. I have a flexible NAT policy engine and firewall. You will need to create services before you can open ports. To keep it simple, i also provide in the VOIP telephony, and 300 TV channels. Thats what all the other buttons do.....
[13:42] Foxx Bode: its impossible to cover all routers.
[13:43] Foxx Bode: every uses own names, terminology and ways to configure.
[13:43] Foxx Bode: but i will mention the most made mistakes.
[13:43] Greybeard Thinker: uhuh I just got my new router delivered, NOT in that list hahahaha
[13:43] Foxx Bode: 1. port FORWARDING is what we need. not port Filtering, not port Triggering, not port translation.
[13:45] Foxx Bode: This might also be called, gameserver, NAT, Firewall, Media, Services, or something else, depending on which cheap Taiwanese translator was used.
[13:45] Foxx Bode: whilst writing the firmware of your router
[13:46] Foxx Bode: as you can see, by the clicky things in the diagram, there are loads of  network configurations possible, and existent out there.
[13:47] Arrwyll Barzane: yes , thats a excellent diagram Foxx...
[13:47] The internet: I exist of IPv4 and IPv6 adresses. Any address except for the ranges 192.168.x..x / 10.x.x.x / 172.16.x.x are considered a public IP address. Meaning if you see a network starting with one of the mentioned numbers, you know it is a local / internal network you look at.
[13:47] LinkSYs: Linksys Router, I am on public IP 21.23.5.112, my internal range is 10.0.0.1/24
[13:48] Foxx Bode: each home has its own machines, Brands, routers.
[13:48] Foxx Bode: nice thing is, qua networking they all work nearly 100% same
[13:49] Foxx Bode: the addressing system is "unavoidable" :)
[13:49] Foxx Bode: all hard rules.
[13:50] Foxx Bode: so assuming you got in your router, we need to tell it to open ports
[13:50] Foxx Bode: find the respective tab where to do so.
[13:50] Foxx Bode: it typically asks for IP address, port and protocol
[13:51] Foxx Bode: it knows its own public, ip, and wants to know, where do i send what.
[13:52] Foxx Bode: so we tell it on the TCP protocol ( this is where the simulator listens on ), to open port 9000 ( default in OSG ) and send any traffic it receives for it to the local address of the machine running the simulator
[13:53] Foxx Bode: we do the same for the UDP protocol. (the regions you run on the simulator communicate on UDP)
[13:53] Ni Lemon: and if we have more then 1 region 9000, 9001 and so on
[13:54] Foxx Bode: make sure to hit apply, and dont forget to tick checkbox for active etc, depending on your router.
[13:54] Ni Lemon: ?
[13:54] Greybeard Thinker: we make a rule for each
[13:54] Foxx Bode: yes
[13:54] Greybeard Thinker: we do NOT open a block of unused ports
[13:54] Arielle Popstar: or range  if router has that  ability
[13:54] Garry Beaumont: not UDP/TCP?
[13:54] Foxx Bode: some router have option for Both protocol at same time, this can also cause issues
[13:54] Garry Beaumont: BOTH?
[13:55] Garry Beaumont: ok
[13:55] Arielle Popstar: issues?
[13:55] Ni Lemon: mine haves option for both
[13:55] Arrwyll Barzane: mine too
[13:55] Arrwyll Barzane: like what issues?
[13:55] Foxx Bode: you can as long as you don't run multiple regions in 1 sim, this can give weird routing / teleporting issues
[13:56] Edwards Unpluged : I opened my ports of the 9000 9010 on TCP and UDP simultaniously
[13:56] Foxx Bode: but thats all router firmware dependant, (its how they implemented NAT) not so much OSG related.
[13:56] Foxx Bode: some routers are a pain to configure.
[13:56] Jeff Hall: i use multiple regions per sim but of course with a single port for each regions
[13:57] Foxx Bode: yes, but than is best to use separate TCP and UDP, rather than Both
[13:57] Edwards Unpluged : a question
[13:57] Arielle Popstar: just the http listener port needs to be opened for TCP though right?
[13:57] Foxx Bode: yes, and  that is listed in opensim.ini
[13:58] Foxx Bode: if you run 2 simulators, yyou put them both on a unique port.
[13:58] Edwards Unpluged : only by opening TCP and UDP port 9000 can write to the folder region.ini port 900,9001,9002 etc
[13:59] Foxx Bode: yes, the ports are used to differentiate servers and services.
[13:59] Foxx Bode: you can only use a port 1 time
[13:59] Edwards Unpluged : single port 9000 on the router for various regions
[13:59] Foxx Bode: but you can use any between 1025 and 65535
[14:00] Foxx Bode: defaults do fine though for most people
[14:01] Foxx Bode: ok. we found the port forwarding, configured, teleport. Fail
[14:01] Foxx Bode: www.canyouseeme.org
[14:01] Foxx Bode: fill port 9000
[14:02] Foxx Bode: cannot see my service.
[14:02] Foxx Bode: what do i do now ?
[14:03] Greybeard Thinker: burn down the firewall
[14:03] Foxx Bode: exactly. If that webpage cant see y service, my viewer cant either.
[14:03] Foxx Bode: since we just made port forwarding in the router, something else is blocking
[14:03] Computer with Antivirus & Firewall: I am the client / server/ both. My firewall / security suite determines the amount of access. I can block or allow access to your simulator by access rules on either the ports, or the process of opensim. By default, i block all incoming trafic that does not originate from within my own network.
[14:04] Foxx Bode: Computer with Antivirus & Firewall.
[14:04] Arielle Popstar: canyouseeme  only checks on tcp not udp right?
[14:04] Foxx Bode: correct
[14:05] Foxx Bode: but for detecting misconfiguration or blocks is good enough
[14:05] Arielle Popstar: but not  good for sorting  region handshake issue
[14:05] Foxx Bode: we will get there :)
[14:06] Foxx Bode: ok, we have a security suite.
[14:06] Foxx Bode: we either configure it to allow OSG or disable it. Same for windows firewall.
[14:06] Foxx Bode: its not hard, any youtube tutorial can show you.
[14:07] Foxx Bode: for arguments sake, also always restart your region.
[14:07] Greybeard Thinker: some routers, easier to kill the router firewall and harden the machine firewall
[14:07] Greybeard Thinker: I had to
[14:08] Foxx Bode: thats another option, next to routing, some routers have firewalls inside
[14:08] Foxx Bode: which need separate configuration.
[14:08] Ni Lemon: like mine
[14:08] Greybeard Thinker: sticks hand up me too
[14:09] Foxx Bode: it all depends on your hardware. But base remains same
[14:09] Foxx Bode: we tell the router where to forward traffic.
[14:09] Edwards Unpluged : Remove also the Block Anonymous Internet Requests
[14:11] Foxx Bode: ok, security suite configured, all restarted, firewall open, simulator is up, port forwarding is set, to 192.168.1.1 but no joy
[14:11] Foxx Bode: no route to host i see.
[14:13] Foxx Bode: 192.168.1.1 is typically the gateway. Your local IP is likely something like 192.168.1.15 :) So setup port forwarding to the IPv4 address not the gateway, ( which was the login to router remember ).
[14:14] Foxx Bode: nerd joke, less funny than i thought, nvm :)
[14:14] Greybeard Thinker: lol
[14:15] Foxx Bode: ok, assuming we set correct port forwarding, and nothing is blocking traffic your service will become visible from the Internet, and you will be able to connect and build.
[14:16] Foxx Bode: for an increasing group of users, this keeps failing however.
[14:16] Foxx Bode: they get a new modem supplied by ISP, and it lacks NAT loopback functionality
[14:17] Foxx Bode: now please mind that really most stuff i troubleshoot are misconfiguration.
[14:17] Arielle Popstar: solution: complain to opensim devs to fix opensim networking
[14:17] Foxx Bode: mostly port forwarding pointing towards wrong ip addresses, or public IP's that changed
[14:17] Fairy Constantine: I assume that if you have your own region running you have the correct port forwarding?
[14:17] Foxx Bode: yes, you should Fairy, else you cannot access your region
[14:18] Foxx Bode: has nothing to do with opensim. Its how the firmware on a router is implemented.
[14:18] Foxx Bode: let me explain the nat problem 1st
[14:19] Foxx Bode: opensim is a server.
[14:19] Foxx Bode: servers want to be talked to on their public IP
[14:20] Foxx Bode: typically, as they want to serve online users.
[14:20] Foxx Bode: now internet and networks, are just a bunch of protocols.
[14:21] Foxx Bode: we agreed to do things in a specific way, globally.
[14:21] Foxx Bode: one network agreement is, that if we have traffic destined for the same local network, we address it on its local (internal) IP.
[14:22] Foxx Bode: in the mail metafore, you drop a christmas card for the neighbor into his mailbox, you don't bring it to the post office
[14:23] Foxx Bode: in serverlalaland. that can fail.
[14:23] Foxx Bode: the server is configured to receive packets addressed to public IP as stated in region.ini
[14:23] Foxx Bode: on a certain port.
[14:23] Foxx Bode: if that address mismatches, or the port, it will simply trash the packet.
[14:24] Foxx Bode: now routers with NAT loopback support, don't touch the address header of the packet.
[14:25] Foxx Bode: they receive a packet from local network, see its destination is located in its LAN, and forwards it with the public header untouched. Packet comes in on public IP, and gets passed to simulator
[14:26] Arielle Popstar: sounds easy
[14:27] Foxx Bode: Routers without NAT loopback, rewrite the public IP of the packet, to the Internal Address of the server, and respond to the sender it should address its packets locally.
[14:27] Foxx Bode: and not send them to gateway, as its destination is in same network
[14:28] Foxx Bode: result is that the packet is NATted (translated)  to local IP, comes in where the simulator expects a public IP, and the connection fails. packet gets trashed
[14:29] Foxx Bode: result is, anyone from outside the Local network can connect.
[14:29] Foxx Bode: nobody from the inside can.
[14:29] Greybeard Thinker: solution, trash that router and buy one that actually does NAT right
[14:29] Foxx Bode: normally thats the best solution.
[14:30] Foxx Bode: But you can work around it, although limited
[14:30] Greybeard Thinker: not hard if your pockets are deep enough
[14:30] Foxx Bode: if you install a viewer on the same machine as the simulator that is.
[14:30] Jeff Hall: free MS loopback adapter works well for me
[14:31] Arielle Popstar: its  hit  and  mis  on the  adapter  for a lot of people
[14:31] Greybeard Thinker: yep
[14:31] Foxx Bode: exactly. if you install the KMS loopback adapter ( tutorials on wiki ) you can get around this
[14:31] Domonico haruki: that is what I am trying to work out
[14:31] Foxx Bode: but it has a glitch
[14:31] Foxx Bode: :) and i tested this as i didn't believe, but it works.
[14:32] Arrwyll Barzane: i tried that adapter but not sure the instruction is complete.
[14:32] Foxx Bode: if you have installed the loopback adapter, you have to assign it your public Ip address
[14:32] Foxx Bode: and do not give it a gateway
[14:33] Domonico haruki: what would I enter for the dns server
[14:33] Foxx Bode: nothing
[14:33] Foxx Bode: whats important is do not give it a gateway
[14:34] Foxx Bode: nor a subnet
[14:34] Domonico haruki: ok so I set subnet as 255.255.255.255 right
[14:34] Domonico haruki: oh ok
[14:34] Domonico haruki: lol
[14:34] Greybeard Thinker: lol
[14:34] Arielle Popstar: oh
[14:34] Domonico haruki: what about default gateway
[14:34] Foxx Bode: ( it will produce an error, as it demands a subnet. Let it fill one, but just hit X on the error
[14:34] Arielle Popstar: it  will work without the subnet?
[14:34] Arielle Popstar: ok
[14:35] Foxx Bode: also this demands that your region.ini is set to  have a local IP of 0.0.0.0 for what i found
[14:35] Foxx Bode: You can still set a static LAN ip on your machine, and make a port forwarding to it.
[14:36] Foxx Bode: so your forwarding doesn't fail, after your wife vacuumed ( and pulled the router plug for 5 mins ) ;lP
[14:36] Domonico haruki: wait now confused, so if I have to use the ms loopback adapter I have to change the region ini to 0.0.0.0 for what? the local or external?
[14:36] Foxx Bode: local
[14:36] Domonico haruki: k
[14:36] Arielle Popstar: now  this  is only when the server and the viewer  are  on the same machine right?
[14:36] Arielle Popstar: what about  when the server  is  on a spare  machine?
[14:37] Ni Lemon: good  question Arielle
[14:37] Foxx Bode: and the public remans external IP, and yuou also set that as IPV4 on the loopback one, without any further settings. X on the error, ok and set.
[14:37] Arielle Popstar: so fill in the external IP only
[14:38] Foxx Bode: when the server and viewer are on a spare machine, this trick will not work, as that machine has no other means to get to the simulator than through the router.
[14:38] Arielle Popstar: what about  host file  trick?
[14:38] Foxx Bode: and this loopback adapter simply intercepts the traffic, and loops it, without modifying header.
[14:39] Domonico haruki: ah I see
[14:39] Domonico haruki: so you set for localhost basically in the ini file so the loopback works?
[14:39] Domonico haruki: I think lol
[14:39] Foxx Bode: you can enable LMhosts lookup and map an entry in there, but i haven't seen that in a succesfull setup as yet.
[14:39] Arielle Popstar: think it is just the Hosts  one
[14:39] Arielle Popstar: not LMHosts
[14:40] Arielle Popstar: i do use  it for some configurations and  it does work
[14:40] Jeff Hall: i put the WAN ip in IPV4 loopback adapter properties to make it work
[14:41] Arrwyll Barzane: Foxx - yopu been great man and i appreciate all your efforts - but - its rl dinner time ...
[14:42] Foxx Bode: yes, i'm pretty much done yapping aswell. its much info in 1 session
[14:42] Domonico haruki: back, still doesn't work, must of messed something up :(
[14:43] Arielle Popstar: restart Domonoc
[14:43] Foxx Bode: whats important is that you keep trac of your port forwarding, your regions.ini and your IP settings if stuff fails.
[14:43] Foxx Bode: its the 1st place to look
[14:43] Domonico haruki: oh ya maybe a restart will help
[14:43] Ni Lemon: Thanks Foxx, great lesson and see the number of present people it's a success and meaning people doesn't want just parties ☺ ☺ ☺
[14:44] Greybeard Thinker: there will be the odd case, where it's the ISP Foxx,
[14:44] Domonico haruki: otherwise I have it exactly like you said. the router end of things I know I have right
[14:44] Foxx Bode: typically an address changed, or the port forwarding points to a wrong address, because pc got a different one
[14:44] Garry Beaumont: I'm going to jump up and down on my pimple island.
[14:44] Domonico haruki: and made sure firewall isn't an issue, but gotta get the loopback to work
[14:45] Greybeard Thinker: I jumped through every single one of those hoops years ago, only to realise it was my ISP, forbids servers running to the net from home
[14:45] Arielle Popstar: kk thx  Foxx. When is session 2?
[14:45] Foxx Bode: I will try and cook up something more structured for next week :)
[14:45] Greybeard Thinker: only way I can run is by renting my own damned server in a data center
[14:45] Total Sorbet: fabulous foxx ty
[14:46] Foxx Bode: anyone have questions ?
[14:46] Ni Lemon: at every change we need to restart to made it work
[14:46] Greybeard Thinker: yes Ni
[14:46] Foxx Bode: yes,
[14:46] Ni Lemon: just saying :-)~
[14:46] Arielle Popstar: its  a good idea  to
[14:46] Foxx Bode: the changes are reloaded with the INI's
[14:49] Edwards Unpluged (es>en): Let me ask a question
[14:50] Ni Lemon: go ahead Edwards
[14:50] Edwards Unpluged (es>en): Thank you
[14:50] Edwards Unpluged (es>en): on my router I have port 9000 9010 2 forms of TCP and UDP
[14:50] Foxx Bode: ya
[14:51] Edwards Unpluged (es>en): I leave open then only the 9000 in 2 modes?
[14:51] Foxx Bode: Your simulator ( black sonsole ) use 1 TCP port
[14:51] Foxx Bode: every region use 1 UDP port
[14:52] Edwards Unpluged (es>en): It has nothing to do with the region.ini folder when positioned port 9000.9001.9002 and so on
[14:52] Foxx Bode: you can open TCP 9000 and UDP 9000-9004 and run 4 regions in 1 simulator
[14:52] Foxx Bode: is not recomended, but theoretically is like that
[14:53] Edwards Unpluged (es>en): OK 10 regions ports from the 9000 9010 on the router also
[14:54] Foxx Bode: each region is mapped against its own UDP port Edward. All in region.ini is UDP. The one in opensim.ini is TCP
[14:55] Fearghus.HyperGridTraveler @www.fearlessmysteries.eu:8002: ah so for every instance....at least 1 tcp port is needed...
[14:55] Foxx Bode: exactly
[14:56] Foxx Bode: TCP is Transport Control Protocol, its all verified traffic with handshakes.
[14:56] Foxx Bode: UDP is User Datagram Protocol. It fires and forgets
[14:56] snakedance moonwing: i prefer verification by milkshakes :P
[14:56] Foxx Bode: no control mechanisms, in a nutshell
[14:57] Jo.Pearl @u4ria.dnsrd.com:8002: so you do or dont need tcp for regions as well?
[14:57] Jeff Hall: TCP good for banking while UDP best for music video streaming
[14:57] Foxx Bode: you need a simulator for regions, and that demands TCP.
[14:58] Greybeard Thinker: uhuh, a sim can be fired up regionless
[14:58] Jo.Pearl @u4ria.dnsrd.com:8002: yes but for port forwarding for regions settings do you need TCP for region?
[14:58] Foxx Bode: no TCP for the simulator, UDP for regions
[14:59] Edwards Unpluged (es>en): for my part this clear thanks foxx
[14:59] Fearghus.HyperGridTraveler @www.fearlessmysteries.eu:8002: so for a simulator running 2 regions you'd open for example port 9000 tcp...and port 9000 and 9001 udp?
[14:59] Greybeard Thinker: yes Fear
[14:59] Foxx Bode: yup.
[14:59] Total Sorbet: no tcp for 9001?
[14:59] Foxx Bode: no need, the sim doesn't use it
[15:00] Total Sorbet: ty!
[15:00] Foxx Bode: it already listens on 9000
[15:00] Total Sorbet: gotcher
[15:00] Greybeard Thinker: fire another sim and it would fail at 9000 TCP though
[15:00] Total Sorbet: i got some router editing to do!
[15:00] Jo.Pearl @u4ria.dnsrd.com:8002: and for 8003 robust?
[15:00] Greybeard Thinker: that would have to be shifted
[15:00] Total Sorbet: oh?
[15:00] Foxx Bode: idk, ask Dan
[15:01] Greybeard Thinker: 8002 this grid uses
[15:01] Greybeard Thinker: if I fire up another sim, I shift the ports to the same series, ie, 8000, 8001, etc
[15:01] Foxx Bode: it doesnt matter if you open both TCP and UDP BTW, you simply don't use the ports that aren't configured
[15:02] Greybeard Thinker: remembering that new firewall and any routing rules will need to be written for them too
[15:03] Foxx Bode: yes that can be a thingy
[15:03] Foxx Bode: some routers require a restart after applying rules, as they dont clear routing cache properly
[15:03] Ni Lemon: True
[15:04] Foxx Bode: and than get a new IP by their ISP....
[15:04] Foxx Bode: or DHCP hands a new one
[15:04] Greybeard Thinker: the joys of handbuilding networking lol
[15:05] Foxx Bode: so always, check internal IP, external IP, port forwarding
[15:05] Jo.Pearl @u4ria.dnsrd.com:8002: would be great having a grid to play with
[15:07] Fuze Strawberry: I have a question, If I'm running a NATloopback router and logging into a standalone on the same PC, should I log into localhost? And would that affect my ability to HG out to another grid?
[15:07] Foxx Bode: yes and no
[15:08] Foxx Bode: yes login on 127.0.0.1 and you can HG no probs
[15:08] Fuze Strawberry: when I do it I can see other grids but teleports fail with unable to verify or something like that
[15:08] Foxx Bode: just bback to your region might fail for you, but a relog will fix
[15:10] Foxx Bode: hm idk, cant test that from where i am, might be version related, idk