View source for TownHallMeetingLog20130106

<br>[14:16] Key Gruin: OK anyone have any agenda items?
<br>[14:16] paulie Flomar: Bueller....bueller....anyone?
<br>[14:16] Timber Wolfe: our new region cleaner :)
<br>[14:16] Sarah Kline: lbsa has a leaky roof
<br>[14:16] Hiro Protagonist sinks lower under the desk
<br>[14:16] Snik Snoodle: any points raised at the last meeting?
<br>[14:17] Timber Wolfe: our new defective region cleaner
<br>[14:17] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: talk about our Future
<br>[14:17] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: our needs
<br>[14:17] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: our duty
<br>[14:17] Snik Snoodle: that have been dealt with or addressed in any way?
<br>[14:17] Sarah Kline: it was a slight mishap
<br>[14:17] Key Gruin: the cleaner has been fixed
<br>[14:17] Han Held: I'm seeing a lot more greeters at lbsa, tho I've noticed less noobs; that may be because I've been there less, however.
<br>[14:17] Timber Wolfe: yay
<br>[14:17] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: the new how too for osgrid
<br>[14:17] Han Held: But it seems like there's been an uptick in noob assistance, which is a Good Thing
<br>[14:17] Cuteulala Artis: cant see dan or lalen
<br>[14:18] Richardus Raymaker: I think the region cleaner just did what it did before to. nothing new.. :O
<br>[14:18] Cuteulala Artis: i see key tho
<br>[14:18] Jalen Optera: we aren't here ;)
<br>[14:18] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: our desires or dreads
<br>[14:18] Han Held: can't see 2/3 of the ppl who I know are here -_-
<br>[14:18] dan banner: timber: there was a perl package i believe was required by the checker part of the script that sets the regions active
<br>[14:18] Key Gruin: it was actually the checker that was faulty but all is good now
<br>[14:18] Richardus Raymaker: hi jalen
<br>[14:18] Timber Wolfe: still run into the oddball routers newbs seem to love buying
<br>[14:18] dan banner: that has been added and tested to be sure it is working
<br>[14:18] Richardus Raymaker: hi dan.
<br>[14:18] Timber Wolfe: great dan
<br>[14:18] dan banner: hi rich
<br>[14:18] Arielle Popstar: not typing
<br>[14:19] Key Gruin drops a pin
<br>[14:19] Timber Wolfe: I spent 4 hours with an aussie lady and got her sim up on the map but couldnt TP in and her router was some wierd brand I never heard of so I couldn't go further in helping her
<br>[14:20] Timber Wolfe: what about:
<br>[14:20] dan banner: so far most of the regions that were registered are back now
<br>[14:20] Timber Wolfe: a group
<br>[14:20] amsterdam Bingyi is online.
<br>[14:20] Richardus Raymaker: curious what brand you talk about
<br>[14:20] Snik Snoodle: yes i've had terrible trouble with some routers
<br>[14:20] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: what can we all do to help keep us the cutting edge simulator social networking hub of the metaverce
<br>[14:20] Han Held: I think blaming the users for buying hardware that otherwise meets their needs because they don't anticipate a bizarre edge-case isn't a very productive attitude to have.
<br>[14:20] Vivian Klees: http://i.imgur.com/vsFw2.jpg for those who can't see the scene
<br>[14:20] George Equus: 33 ppl present here
<br>[14:20] Snik Snoodle: I agree Han
<br>[14:20] stiofain nbmcmedia: the new world studio guy had a very good router issue fix page
<br>[14:20] Cuteulala Artis: i think im gonna dc
<br>[14:20] Cuteulala Artis: soon
<br>[14:20] dan banner: timber there are a few 'avenues' for help
<br>[14:20] Cuteulala Artis: lol
<br>[14:20] Arielle Popstar: all the aussie's have trouble with their adsl modems :)
<br>[14:20] Timber Wolfe: she bought the router a week before and said afetr I told her it might not work for her that she might have to get another one, that she will not buy another router
<br>[14:21] George Equus: Routers are the hard part for noobs
<br>[14:21] dan banner: irc, in-world, mailing list, etc
<br>[14:21] Shelann Morane: We help too
<br>[14:21] Timber Wolfe: is there one group or something dan, for example;
<br>[14:21] Timber Wolfe: I was with the lady in the setting up
<br>[14:21] Richardus Raymaker: Han, with internet you cant choice. the ISP gives you soem modem or router and thats it
<br>[14:21] Timber Wolfe: and ran into the router issue
<br>[14:21] Snik Snoodle: i agree george
<br>[14:21] Han Held: Can't blame her if, if it works for 99.9999% of the rest of what she's doing.
<br>[14:21] Cuteulala Artis: yayyyyyy
<br>[14:21] dan banner: no timber there isnt any one group
<br>[14:21] Cuteulala Artis: world loaing
<br>[14:21] Han Held: Ah, there's the plaza...and I'm smack dab in a table lol
<br>[14:21] Timber Wolfe: if there is a group where one can get live help, thats good
<br>[14:21] Jalen Optera: There is the greeter group to help people timber
<br>[14:22] Timber Wolfe whispers: whats the name of the group jalen?
<br>[14:22] Jalen Optera: but group messaging can be buggy
<br>[14:22] Timber Wolfe: I was thinking of tech support group
<br>[14:22] Jalen Optera: they should go to irc
<br>[14:22] Richardus Raymaker: well, if you get modem from ISP your safe..
<br>[14:22] Key Gruin: groups arent a very good way to communicate
<br>[14:22] Snik Snoodle: i think i hear - i cant gat to my sim - more than where'd the free sex @ - at lbsa
<br>[14:22] Timber Wolfe: she got her modem FROM her isp rich
<br>[14:22] Richardus Raymaker: dont use group messages. besides i have disabled that compleet on regions. it create HUGH lag for now
<br>[14:22] Timber Wolfe: it was a Telstra modem
<br>[14:23] Han Held: Group notices are flakey, just a general FYI
<br>[14:23] Arielle Popstar: Dan is usually in Lbsa
<br>[14:23] Timber Wolfe: thats the thing
<br>[14:23] Timber Wolfe: if you can post a group message and you cant see who is logeg din,
<br>[14:23] gimisa cerise left the region.
<br>[14:23] Arielle Popstar: irc is so often dead
<br>[14:23] Timber Wolfe: its abig shot in the dark opening the group chat
<br>[14:23] Elmo Figaro is online.
<br>[14:23] Ni Lemon is offline.
<br>[14:23] Timber Wolfe: *cant post a group message
<br>[14:23] Jeeper Shim: It took quite a bit of googling but I finally got my isp supplied modem/router to work
<br>[14:23] Jalen Optera: but if people ask questions in irc, they are usually answered, there just isnt much chat
<br>[14:23] Han Held: IRC can be pretty flakey, I agree.
<br>[14:23] Eryn Galen: IRC is dead because you keep quiet Ari ;)
<br>[14:24] Snik Snoodle: aside from suggesting ms loopback and checking router setups - i cant help further mostly :(
<br>[14:24] Jalen Optera: I see Ari answer questions in irc for example
<br>[14:24] Eryn Galen: dan, wake up... Meeting time, heheehe
<br>[14:24] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: maybe we could hear form Hiro on the current settings of the osgrid
<br>[14:24] dan banner: im here
<br>[14:24] Key Gruin: IRC is the most reliable communication there is
<br>[14:24] dan banner: +1 key
<br>[14:24] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: where is Nebadon how has his position changed
<br>[14:24] Timber Wolfe: so the sugegstion is IRC then?
<br>[14:24] dan banner: irc takes patience
<br>[14:24] Snik Snoodle: agreed dan
<br>[14:24] Eryn Galen: I was kidding Jalen as Ari is one of the more active people on IRC
<br>[14:24] Key Gruin: yes Timber
<br>[14:24] Han Held: NOt as reliable as the forums...forums you can check and go back to, and don't require staring at a window  ?
<br>[14:24] Jalen Optera: yeah, I was kidding Ari Eryn :)
<br>[14:25] Han Held: Even email lists are better.
<br>[14:25] Timber Wolfe: forums could take hours to days to get a response
<br>[14:25] Eryn Galen: hehe
<br>[14:25] Timber Wolfe: when you are in the middle of setting up a configuration, its nice to have soemthing live right there
<br>[14:25] Vivian Klees: how about fixing the website os it's more user friendly
<br>[14:25] Arielle Popstar: forums are not a good way to resolve router issues
<br>[14:25] Timber Wolfe: but IRC sounds viable
<br>[14:25] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: I feel that systems are at critical ,..we need to act an not react?
<br>[14:25] Snik Snoodle: prob with irc is - if you see someone and try chatting and their afk or busy - can be a bit frustrating if your not used to it
<br>[14:25] Tiffany Sicling entered the region (142.02 m).
<br>[14:25] Eryn Galen: the only qualm I have is that you cant change your email address after login
<br>[14:26] Han Held: Yeah, that is nice and it's preferable --but that depends on people being awake in channels, and that's not always the case with regards to IRC
<br>[14:26] Eryn Galen: but thats probably for tachnical reasons
<br>[14:26] Snik Snoodle: Eryn +1
<br>[14:26] Eryn Galen: I have seen a lot of asks about that on the forum lately
<br>[14:26] Eryn Galen: *technical
<br>[14:26] Shez Oyen is online.
<br>[14:26] Kymmy Krasner entered the region (142.03 m).
<br>[14:26] Richardus Raymaker: do we have a FAQ ?
<br>[14:26] Eryn Galen: Hiro, if I can get a friend to write a php plugin for changing the email, would you guys put it in?
<br>[14:26] Snik Snoodle: yeah my e-mail addys out of date - but they not really used for much - are they?
<br>[14:27] dan banner: timber: http://portforward.com is a good resource
<br>[14:27] Timber Wolfe: on the routers, I think the grid web site has a sugegsted list of routers if im not mistaken, or maybe its the opensim wiki
<br>[14:27] Timber Wolfe: thanks dan
<br>[14:27] Richardus Raymaker: i cant remeber wich e-mail i used. need to look in the file i think.
<br>[14:27] Eryn Galen: Snik, they are used in case you forget your password
<br>[14:27] Snik Snoodle: was in opensim wiki timber
<br>[14:27] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: Hiro is our new systems coordinator a possible choice in the new beginnings for ?
<br>[14:27] Key Gruin: email is needed for a password reset
<br>[14:27] Casias Falta is online.
<br>[14:27] Snik Snoodle: ak kk eryn
<br>[14:27] Shez Oyen entered the region (139.95 m).
<br>[14:27] Arielle Popstar: there are very few routers which will absolutely not work
<br>[14:27] Hiro Protagonist: As long as it didnt cause a security problem and didnt involve redesigning the website LOL
<br>[14:27] Timber Wolfe: we found a lot of stuff, but ive never seen a Telstra router in my life
<br>[14:27] Timber Wolfe: and never used windows 7 either
<br>[14:28] Hiro Protagonist: there are actually a couple of other features I want to add to the website I already have written, but they too need to be adapted
<br>[14:28] Eryn Galen: the only question for that, can do that later is: where is it stored....
<br>[14:28] Hiro Protagonist: partnering
<br>[14:28] Hiro Protagonist: offl;ine IMs to email
<br>[14:28] Sarah Kline: yay
<br>[14:28] amsterdam Bingyi is offline.
<br>[14:28] Hiro Protagonist: some other stuff
<br>[14:28] George Equus left the region.
<br>[14:28] Timber Wolfe: il ladd portforward to my notecards dan
<br>[14:28] stiofain nbmcmedia: osg site as is now just requires @ and dot in email addrss
<br>[14:28] Eryn Galen: nice Hirowater my mouth, hehe
<br>[14:28] Hiro Protagonist: but none of th3at really has priority
<br>[14:28] Snik Snoodle: oh sounds good hiro
<br>[14:28] Sarah Kline: somthing people have been asking for ages
<br>[14:29] Hiro Protagonist: it's actually implemented in my web frontend, Egress
<br>[14:29] Arielle Popstar: oh nice Hiro
<br>[14:29] Jalen Optera: Timber, there are some wonderful tutorials on the webside, including one by Sarah, I would point them to that
<br>[14:29] Hiro Protagonist: but we wont be switching to that frontend, we'll be extending this one
<br>[14:29] Cuteulala Artis: We really need fix the jumping in place issue lol when you stand on edge of prims and jump and push forward you dont go forward just fall back down
<br>[14:29] Snik Snoodle: is it possible to form working groups that would report back on the integration of new features?
<br>[14:29] Kymmy Krasner left the region.
<br>[14:29] Timber Wolfe: for sure jalen, tho this one was difficult for me because I never used windows 7 and she didnt even know how to use the terminal
<br>[14:29] Eryn Galen: so what can we expect for website goodies, can you tell, Hiro?
<br>[14:29] Ni Lemon is online.
<br>[14:29] Hiro Protagonist: Snik: all dev is pretty much organic
<br>[14:30] Timber Wolfe: I got her so her sim was UP, on the world map tho the first try
<br>[14:30] Arielle Popstar: i have notecards for potential loopback solutions Timber
<br>[14:30] Snik Snoodle nod - I understand Hiro
<br>[14:30] Hiro Protagonist: the real proof is in the pudding: show up with something thats nice, someone will put it to use
<br>[14:30] Timber Wolfe: i could use those arielle to add to what I have
<br>[14:30] Richardus Raymaker: Arielle. not good idea to post that notecard as some important forum topic ?
<br>[14:30] stiofain nbmcmedia: the website presumes that everyone has used sl
<br>[14:30] Snik Snoodle: sounds good arie
<br>[14:31] Eryn Galen: does it stio?
<br>[14:31] Eryn Galen: I never have
<br>[14:31] dan banner: i dont see that stio
<br>[14:31] Eryn Galen: and login etc are pretty much used everywhere
<br>[14:32] Casias Falta entered the region (6.20 m).
<br>[14:32] Richardus Raymaker: the osgrid website is easy to use. especially compared to the SL one. thats a pretty complex where's what layout.
<br>[14:32] Ashton Nobilis left the region.
<br>[14:32] Sarah Kline: yes its very basic
<br>[14:32] stiofain nbmcmedia: well i have had several newbs think that once they login on site they think that shud bring them to the vw
<br>[14:32] Arielle Popstar: be nice if someone would update the osgrid launcher too
<br>[14:33] Eryn Galen: I call that a general misconception that will probably also apply to SL
<br>[14:33] Snik Snoodle: tbh i simply laid out websites are easier to navigate
<br>[14:33] Cuteulala Artis: hehe yes i had a friend who thought he logged into lbsa on website too hahaah
<br>[14:33] Richardus Raymaker: stiofan, that are possiblke the newb that think SLFeed = SL.
<br>[14:33] stiofain nbmcmedia: simple thing is u need 2 things to access an osg account and a viewer
<br>[14:34] Cuteulala Artis: the worst hassle is getitng friends to create the osgrid grid on there viewers :P
<br>[14:34] Mercalia Beck: oh
<br>[14:34] Tiffany Sicling: I had a noob once ask where the shops are that you pay L$ for... because freebie stuff is crap. I said good stuff here is free, and they said forget it and left. :(
<br>[14:34] Kymmy Krasner entered the region (7.81 m).
<br>[14:34] Snik Snoodle: o.O Tiff
<br>[14:34] Richardus Raymaker: evil word. i think some people want to say have some wizard on the website that explain things afetr the created the login, and login for the first time ? or before.
<br>[14:34] Cuteulala Artis: you should have guided him to the donate button instead
<br>[14:34] Han Held: osgrid settings are included with the opensim version of firestorm, users don't necessarily need to add osgrid if they're using that.
<br>[14:34] Richardus Raymaker: OMG tiffay. payed stuff can be terrible to
<br>[14:35] Kymmy Krasner left the region.
<br>[14:35] Eryn Galen: well it would be pretty easy to include a text saying login for website only
<br>[14:35] Kymmy Krasner entered the region (142.02 m).
<br>[14:35] Tiffany Sicling: RR: I know... I have wASTED so much L$ in SL in the past
<br>[14:35] Arielle Popstar: with the FS viewer they first need to go to Advanced to turn on Multiple Grids
<br>[14:35] Mercalia Beck: well go to Inwordlz and earn some money form money trees
<br>[14:35] Peter Sailor left the region.
<br>[14:36] Tiffany Sicling: lol merc
<br>[14:36] Han Held: True, Arielle, but once they do the information has already been plugged in.
<br>[14:36] Arielle Popstar: i wish they would puit that setting on thr Opensim tab
<br>[14:36] Mercalia Beck: I got $12
<br>[14:36] Cuteulala Artis: Welll i mean osgrid is as easy as it can get
<br>[14:36] Hiro Protagonist: it's been called to my attention that someone had asked about where Neb is, his change in status, my change in status, etc...
<br>[14:36] Han Held: I agree.
<br>[14:36] Hiro Protagonist: and that no one answered
<br>[14:36] stiofain nbmcmedia: i dont think fstorm are being honest brokers they say they are committed to os but seems they have done little to adapt viewer
<br>[14:36] Hiro Protagonist: I'd like to address that if I might
<br>[14:36] Eryn Galen: ty Hiro :))
<br>[14:36] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: yes
<br>[14:36] Key Gruin: Hiro, thanks
<br>[14:36] Sarah Kline: go for it
<br>[14:36] Tiffany Sicling: yes, wassup Hiro
<br>[14:37] Hiro Protagonist: I actually dont know where he is at them moment, or why he isnt here, he is anything but unwelcome.
<br>[14:37] Cuteulala Artis: Thats cause they like there popularity to lidnen labs haha
<br>[14:37] George Equus entered the region (141.92 m).
<br>[14:37] Richardus Raymaker: my firth idea. neb is busy.
<br>[14:37] Hiro Protagonist: Neb's RL has changed for him such that he no longer has the time and resources to aplly himself in the dedicated way that he has in the past.
<br>[14:38] Hiro Protagonist: He'll still be Nebbin' around, don't worry ;)
<br>[14:38] Eryn Galen: hehe
<br>[14:38] Hiro Protagonist: he just wont be riding the consoles
<br>[14:38] Snik Snoodle: lol nebbin around
<br>[14:38] Tiffany Sicling: It usually figures RL has so many demands on us
<br>[14:38] Key Gruin: hehe
<br>[14:39] Tiffany Sicling: but remember, without RL, there would be no VW
<br>[14:39] Hiro Protagonist: this, coupled with the retraction of UC Irvine's server donation had brought things to a head for him about mid december; and he saw no way out and was about to begin shutting down the grid, for good.
<br>[14:39] stiofain nbmcmedia: lol neb is irish language for a poky nose or sticky beak in australian
<br>[14:39] Sarah Kline: gosh
<br>[14:39] Snik Snoodle: omly you'd know that stio :)
<br>[14:39] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: plz everyone let Hiro talk
<br>[14:39] Hiro Protagonist: anyojne paying attention? ;)
<br>[14:39] paulie Flomar: yep
<br>[14:39] mellow cuddle entered the region (142.02 m).
<br>[14:39] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: its very important
<br>[14:39] Han Held: I, for one, am...please go on, Hiro.
<br>[14:39] stiofain nbmcmedia: yes hiro
<br>[14:39] Hiro Protagonist wanders off and gets a beer
<br>[14:39] Eryn Galen: yes Hiro, absolutely
<br>[14:39] Sarah Kline: trying to
<br>[14:40] Tiffany Sicling: so the grid is/was in jeopardy of going down?
<br>[14:40] Eryn Galen: people, can you be quiet for something as important as that?
<br>[14:40] paulie Flomar: Hiro, come baaack!
<br>[14:40] Key Gruin: yes people please keep the chatter down while Hiro talks
<br>[14:40] Arielle Popstar: that batch is not ready yet Hiro ;)\
<br>[14:40] mellow cuddle left the region.
<br>[14:40] dan banner: store bought today ari
<br>[14:40] Richardus Raymaker: Hard to test things without grid. need different approach then
<br>[14:40] Charles  Norris: yesyes
<br>[14:40] Eryn Galen: hold your horses Rich, Hiro isnt finished
<br>[14:40] Hiro Protagonist: LOL this is one out of the fridge from the store ;)
<br>[14:41] Hiro Protagonist: I'm just gonna let y'all settle in, I dont want to have to repeat this.
<br>[14:41] Arielle Popstar: ahh :)
<br>[14:41] Marc User entered the region (141.92 m).
<br>[14:41] Hiro Protagonist: Ok are we all ready? anybody need to pee?
<br>[14:41] Han Held: Well, I'm gonna make myself coffee and sit afk
<br>[14:41] Han Held: is ready
<br>[14:41] paulie Flomar: we're listenin :)
<br>[14:41] Eryn Galen: lol just go on Hiro, please
<br>[14:41] Hiro Protagonist: alrighty then :)
<br>[14:42] Hiro Protagonist: when I heard the grid was about to be wound down, I was astonished, tbh
<br>[14:42] Hiro Protagonist: I stepped up immediately as I knew Neb had been under some kind of pressure for a while; I didnt think he was making a good assessment of the situation
<br>[14:43] Franziska Bossi is offline.
<br>[14:43] Hiro Protagonist: whether he was doesnt really matter. In any case, I did a few things to improve our hands as a community.
<br>[14:43] Franziska Bossi left the region.
<br>[14:43] Hiro Protagonist: Got a replacement for the backend server we lost at uci. Cheap.
<br>[14:43] Hiro Protagonist: Got a new server for most of the plazas and consoldiated onto it.
<br>[14:43] Hiro Protagonist: Cheap.
<br>[14:43] Marc User left the region.
<br>[14:44] Hiro Protagonist: Now there is a bit of a misconception floating around that this was some kind of hostile takeover or somesuch
<br>[14:44] Hiro Protagonist: That's pretty much bullshit.
<br>[14:44] dan banner: really?
<br>[14:44] dan banner: i never heard that mentioned
<br>[14:44] Eryn Galen: yes dan
<br>[14:44] Timber Wolfe: nor i
<br>[14:44] Hiro Protagonist: Neb was relieved when I stepped forward and has been instrumental in helping me accomplish everything I just mentioned without some of you even noticing that it happened.
<br>[14:44] stiofain nbmcmedia: tbh i never knew was an issue or any impending doom
<br>[14:45] Tiffany Sicling: never heard that either
<br>[14:45] Timber Wolfe: the loss of the irvine obviously was a big problem, but thankfully solutions were found and applied, it went over seemlessly at the user end of things
<br>[14:45] Han Held: Please let him finish?
<br>[14:45] Hiro Protagonist: o5therwise the grid might have been offline for some time until I could get it all done.
<br>[14:45] Eryn Galen: but the main concern I heard about was that somehow the business mentioned was misconstrued into: Osgrid will cost money in the future
<br>[14:45] Hiro Protagonist: Bob Solo and I had a very open and forthright discussion the other night at lbsa
<br>[14:46] Marc User entered the region (141.92 m).
<br>[14:46] Hiro Protagonist: we talked about a whole lot of possibilities for how osgrid could be organized in real going forward
<br>[14:46] Hiro Protagonist: a business structure was one idea we tossed around; a business on the lines of dyndns or canonical
<br>[14:47] Hiro Protagonist: essentially a business that gives away almost everything but charges for premiums, or even runs on donations and returns premiums in consideration of large donations
<br>[14:47] Hiro Protagonist: but these were hypotheticals
<br>[14:47] Hiro Protagonist: I have no intention of charging anyone to use the grid
<br>[14:47] Hiro Protagonist: thats just stupid.
<br>[14:47] Eryn Galen: hehe I think some needed to hear that sentence ;)
<br>[14:47] Hiro Protagonist: they git the scrollback, let 'em reread it.
<br>[14:48] Eryn Galen: hehehe
<br>[14:48] Cuteulala Artis: i no have bank or credit card id be screwed
<br>[14:48] Han Held: What about hooking up our regions to the grid? Do you expect to charge for that?
<br>[14:48] Casias Falta: I donate 5 bucks a month via Pay Pal
<br>[14:48] Hiro Protagonist: you may have noticed that all this happened without a lot of drama. That is by design.
<br>[14:48] Greybeard Thinker: read back Han
<br>[14:48] Hiro Protagonist: THANK YOU FOR THAT cASIAS
<br>[14:48] Hiro Protagonist: oops
<br>[14:48] stiofain nbmcmedia: yea hiro good on the no drama
<br>[14:48] Hiro Protagonist: Well, it shoulda been shouted anyway
<br>[14:48] paulie Flomar: +1
<br>[14:49] Hiro Protagonist: Han: no.
<br>[14:49] Hiro Protagonist: None of these things Bob and I discussed had the form of 'plans'
<br>[14:49] Arielle Popstar: so how much does Osgrid need per year to run?
<br>[14:49] Hiro Protagonist: they were *possible solutions to a big problem*
<br>[14:49] Timber Wolfe: good question ari
<br>[14:50] Hiro Protagonist: Arielle: I couldn't even form up a decent estimate off the top of my head.
<br>[14:50] Tom camellian is offline.
<br>[14:50] Key Gruin: how much do the servers cost?
<br>[14:50] Timber Wolfe: several hundred a month for sure
<br>[14:50] Key Gruin: that would be the major cost
<br>[14:50] Eryn Galen: Well thanks for stepping up Hiro. Do you think the community as a whole can help with the transition, running ,etc?
<br>[14:51] George Equus: There must be a budget for all this somewhere.....?
<br>[14:51] Richardus Raymaker: Sure timber ? i know use not cheap with hopsting and rackspace.
<br>[14:51] Richardus Raymaker: USA
<br>[14:51] Snik Snoodle: eryn +1
<br>[14:51] Timber Wolfe: rich- for the total server, not per server
<br>[14:51] Cuteulala Artis: wish i can help
<br>[14:51] Arielle Popstar: yes Ty Hiro for taking this on
<br>[14:51] Richardus Raymaker: ok, how many server are running or where running ?
<br>[14:51] paulie Flomar: Hiro +1000
<br>[14:52] Tiffany Sicling: colo4dallas I used in the past
<br>[14:52] Eryn Galen: if there are specific problems, adressing them in front of a lot of people might help in that someone knows someone in RL or someone has an expertise you need...
<br>[14:52] Greybeard Thinker: we can all help simply by hitting the donation button and do like Cas and myself and others
<br>[14:52] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: we need some good community spirit for thought and solid ground for our future
<br>[14:52] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: yes and and means and ways
<br>[14:52] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: a structure
<br>[14:52] Tiffany Sicling: colo4.com I meant (they changed names since)
<br>[14:52] Snik Snoodle: I tend to agree bob
<br>[14:53] Tiffany Sicling: anything we can do to help?
<br>[14:53] Mercalia Beck: well u can be happy that Inworldz contributed $10
<br>[14:54] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: a good government type structure so we can count on a future
<br>[14:54] Timber Wolfe: we owe a lot to Hiro, dan, neb, key and the server swop last month went along perfectly and appears to be running well.
<br>[14:54] Sally Florin: has a question
<br>[14:54] Arielle Popstar: :)
<br>[14:54] stiofain nbmcmedia: sorry folks i need to go to set up for trulies live show in 10 mins Maritime Club Belfast (16,105,33) has been interesting and i look forward to reading summary and anything i miss
<br>[14:54] Richardus Raymaker: Again. put thje donation button on more visible place on the website
<br>[14:54] Cuteulala Artis: if only we could donate via giftcard
<br>[14:54] Cuteulala Artis: like
<br>[14:54] Timber Wolfe: use paypal cute
<br>[14:54] Mercalia Beck: is it a money problem then?
<br>[14:54] Arielle Popstar: or via Lindens :)
<br>[14:54] Oddball Otoole entered the region (141.87 m).
<br>[14:54] Cuteulala Artis: i do not have control over my monetary account bank and such a company does that
<br>[14:55] Han Held: what about bitcoin?
<br>[14:55] Cuteulala Artis: i have a payee
<br>[14:55] Cuteulala Artis: i disabled
<br>[14:55] Cuteulala Artis: i dont manage anything
<br>[14:55] stiofain nbmcmedia left the region.
<br>[14:55] Cuteulala Artis: company does for me
<br>[14:55] Cuteulala Artis: i no creditcard
<br>[14:55] Timber Wolfe: $5 bill or money order in an envelope mailed works too
<br>[14:55] Cuteulala Artis: but!!!!
<br>[14:55] Hiro Protagonist: the big problem in trying to boil this down to a money problem is that while its easy to figure out how much our servers cost, there are other things we need to spend money on
<br>[14:55] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: Money im sure but structure for management and learedship
<br>[14:55] Hiro Protagonist: lawyers for instance
<br>[14:55] Hiro Protagonist: pingdom and similar services
<br>[14:55] Cuteulala Artis: Hiro is it posible for me to western union or somehow go to a place to donate?
<br>[14:55] Truelie Ellen: I'm broke... but if you want entertainment, call on me
<br>[14:55] Hiro Protagonist: hell, it might be nice if we were able to pay some admins some day
<br>[14:56] Hiro Protagonist: Cute do you have a credit card?
<br>[14:56] Cuteulala Artis: no :(
<br>[14:56] Truelie Ellen: and I gotta go play at Belfast sim now, hope y'all will come join us at the Maritime Club
<br>[14:56] Cuteulala Artis: i bearly make it in sl thoes roller coasters are makign me my linden
<br>[14:56] Hiro Protagonist: I wish I could say it were possible
<br>[14:56] Ethan Stone entered the region (141.84 m).
<br>[14:56] Hiro Protagonist: the "big problem"
<br>[14:56] Cuteulala Artis: cant i just western union
<br>[14:56] Timber Wolfe: take the server cost total and add 25% and that would probbaly come to a close rough approximation
<br>[14:56] Hiro Protagonist: the real 900 gorilla sitting over yonder with Viv
<br>[14:56] Arielle Popstar: put up a donation button at your shows Trueli
<br>[14:56] Truelie Ellen left the region.
<br>[14:56] Hiro Protagonist: is that the guy who started osgrid, Inc,
<br>[14:57] Hiro Protagonist: Charles Crinke
<br>[14:57] Hiro Protagonist: has pretty much fell off the face of the earth
<br>[14:57] Ethan Stone left the region.
<br>[14:57] Hiro Protagonist: all our credit cards, paypal, etc are in his name
<br>[14:57] Snik Snoodle: poor crinke
<br>[14:57] Greybeard Thinker: damn
<br>[14:57] Hiro Protagonist: so we have to make a new org
<br>[14:57] Cuteulala Artis: what about a gift credit card?
<br>[14:57] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: I will donate in your name Cute $5/month
<br>[14:57] Timber Wolfe: oh gee, no fun makign a new org
<br>[14:57] Hiro Protagonist: cuz that stuff expires in March, if I am not mistaken
<br>[14:58] Timber Wolfe: incorporated in california i gather
<br>[14:58] Snik Snoodle: well i did suggest a *club*
<br>[14:58] Hiro Protagonist whispers: but suspended for failure to file the foundational documents in a timely manner back in 2009
<br>[14:58] Hiro Protagonist: but suspended for failure to file the foundational documents in a timely manner back in 2009
<br>[14:58] paulie Flomar: doh
<br>[14:58] Han Held: So, the question is how to continue past March?
<br>[14:58] Hiro Protagonist: we have to make a new org
<br>[14:58] Richardus Raymaker: something that pops up. how keeps opensim in development if the grid would be down ?
<br>[14:58] Arielle Popstar: if it expires can it then be bought up by someone else?
<br>[14:58] Hiro Protagonist: get new financial accounts and associated instruments in order
<br>[14:58] Hiro Protagonist: etc
<br>[14:58] Jeff Hall entered the region (142.00 m).
<br>[14:59] Lacchi Macchi is offline.
<br>[14:59] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: wow
<br>[14:59] Oddball Otoole left the region.
<br>[14:59] Hiro Protagonist: this was why the idea of a business was considered
<br>[14:59] Hiro Protagonist: a business can be formed rapidly
<br>[14:59] Hiro Protagonist: Simhost was formed in less than a week
<br>[14:59] Eryn Galen: well a wll run not-for-profit is run much like a good business
<br>[14:59] Oddball Otoole entered the region (141.87 m).
<br>[14:59] Cuteulala Artis: Free buisness suffer we must all do some kind of donation at least
<br>[14:59] Hiro Protagonist: it is
<br>[14:59] Timber Wolfe: the org incorporation papers shouldnt affect the running of the grid itself, but someone has to be the payor to pay for the servers and all that
<br>[14:59] Greybeard Thinker: what about a cooperative society? any such thing in US statutes?
<br>[14:59] Cuteulala Artis: i mean 20 bucks is not to bad
<br>[14:59] Hiro Protagonist: unfortunately it is unlike a business in its formative requirements
<br>[14:59] Cuteulala Artis: for a donation
<br>[14:59] Hiro Protagonist: which are demanding
<br>[15:00] Hiro Protagonist: witness Charle's failure to get them filed
<br>[15:00] Hiro Protagonist: I assure you it was very important to him
<br>[15:00] Eryn Galen: Im not sure if a business can accept donations on a regular basis without skyrocketingv their tax
<br>[15:00] Casias Falta: I am members of several coops I could help set 1 up the point would be to get a board of directors
<br>[15:00] Timber Wolfe: my state is real easy to get a non profit incorporation, only need ONE person
<br>[15:00] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: yes
<br>[15:00] George Equus: Sorry, have to go now, will read the chat log with great interest!
<br>[15:00] Oddball Otoole left the region.
<br>[15:00] Oddball Otoole entered the region (141.87 m).
<br>[15:00] Lacchi Macchi is online.
<br>[15:00] Hiro Protagonist: well this is really the next hurdle we have to clear
<br>[15:01] Tiffany Sicling: would have to file a 401(c) again
<br>[15:01] George Equus left the region.
<br>[15:01] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: needs to be LLC
<br>[15:01] Hiro Protagonist: well, the 401(c) is a pain in the ass
<br>[15:01] Arielle Popstar: is Charles being looked for still?
<br>[15:01] Tiffany Sicling: yeah it is
<br>[15:01] Hiro Protagonist: it's what we tried to do and failed
<br>[15:01] Hiro Protagonist: he pops up now and again
<br>[15:01] Hiro Protagonist: he's still alive
<br>[15:02] Hiro Protagonist: but he took a big hit to his carreer over opensim
<br>[15:02] Casias Falta: where is he located in real life
<br>[15:02] Hiro Protagonist: and osgrid
<br>[15:02] Eryn Galen: ouch
<br>[15:02] Hiro Protagonist: lost his job
<br>[15:02] Hiro Protagonist: a lot of realestate
<br>[15:02] Greybeard Thinker: wow
<br>[15:02] Hiro Protagonist: etc
<br>[15:02] paulie Flomar: !
<br>[15:02] Arielle Popstar: yes he was around somewhere on the mailing list not so long ago
<br>[15:02] Hiro Protagonist: he let his VR overtake his RL and lost it all
<br>[15:02] paulie Flomar: wow
<br>[15:02] Timber Wolfe: oh boy, seen that sort of thing happen
<br>[15:03] Oddball Otoole left the region.
<br>[15:03] Casias Falta: vw overtsk
<br>[15:03] Hiro Protagonist: in a very real way I'm sitting here telling you this because Neb took steps to avoid the same scenario for himself.
<br>[15:04] Eryn Galen: Im sorry he felt that was necessary
<br>[15:04] Hiro Protagonist: it's not a feeling, unless you see hunger as a feeling
<br>[15:04] Timber Wolfe: my state only requires one person to incorporate as a non-profit corporation, im sure other states have similar low requirements, california happens to be probbaly the WORST state to incorporate in
<br>[15:04] Greybeard Thinker: glad you are here Hiro, people need to know these things
<br>[15:04] Hiro Protagonist: no house to live in as a feeling
<br>[15:04] Franziska Bossi is online.
<br>[15:04] Eryn Galen: no I mean that he avoided this for himself.
<br>[15:04] Mika Mesmeriser: well for one i feel that u have started in a good way Hiro being open to ideas and help
<br>[15:04] Hiro Protagonist: I didnt form simhost as a stunt
<br>[15:04] Eryn Galen: I understand that he needs to support himself ;)
<br>[15:05] Richardus Raymaker: Neb worked for my feeling pretty hard the last months of 2012.
<br>[15:05] Hiro Protagonist: or because I got greedy
<br>[15:05] Hiro Protagonist: I formed it as an alternative to pizza delivery
<br>[15:05] Hiro Protagonist: and a candy m,achine route
<br>[15:05] Eryn Galen: oh but I KNOW you are greedy Hiro, lol
<br>[15:05] Casias Falta: vw overtaking rl is just too bizar folks everybody needs to get real
<br>[15:05] Eryn Galen: at least where bear is concerned, GRIN
<br>[15:05] Eryn Galen: *beer
<br>[15:05] Greybeard Thinker: and wot's wrong with beer I ask?
<br>[15:05] Hiro Protagonist: Eryn I bet you would put me to shame at oktoberfest ;P
<br>[15:05] Eryn Galen: lol
<br>[15:06] Eryn Galen: one day we'll have to try Hiro, hehehe
<br>[15:06] Jeff Hall left the region.
<br>[15:06] Hiro Protagonist: be careful what ya ask for ;)
<br>[15:06] Richardus Raymaker: Not sure if i missed. but opensim keeps developed without osgrid. only it need to be done different then ?
<br>[15:06] Richardus Raymaker: in case it would happen.
<br>[15:06] Eryn Galen: I aint afraid of ya, lol
<br>[15:06] Hiro Protagonist: lol!
<br>[15:06] Eryn Galen: Rich, its not going to happen in the near future thanks to Hiro
<br>[15:06] Jeff Hall entered the region (142.00 m).
<br>[15:06] Hiro Protagonist: RiRa: yes a new grid could be formed were this one to be lost
<br>[15:06] Eryn Galen: so its a moot point for now
<br>[15:06] Hiro Protagonist: and I'm sure one would be
<br>[15:07] Richardus Raymaker: 1 liter of beer in one glass :O
<br>[15:07] Hiro Protagonist: but it would be a tragedy I wouldnt want to take part in
<br>[15:07] Richardus Raymaker: Ok, hiro. just a question. its good to know
<br>[15:07] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: yes there is a great foundation here
<br>[15:07] Eryn Galen: so the task is, get OSgrid into a structure that can accept donations and be run without too much hassle
<br>[15:07] Hiro Protagonist: my glasses only hold .5 L lol
<br>[15:07] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: a great new beginnings
<br>[15:07] Eryn Galen: lol hiro, you need bigger ones
<br>[15:07] Hiro Protagonist: Eryn: exactly
<br>[15:07] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: with proper leardership it can sail
<br>[15:07] Hiro Protagonist: we gotta quit burning up good people
<br>[15:07] Oddball Otoole entered the region (141.87 m).
<br>[15:08] Eryn Galen: Hiro: absolutely
<br>[15:08] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: elected officals so we dont get burned
<br>[15:08] Cuteulala Artis: Im to cute to burn
<br>[15:08] Lacchi Macchi is offline.
<br>[15:08] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: hehehe
<br>[15:08] Richardus Raymaker: Then justin need to slowdown to hiro. :O
<br>[15:08] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: yes you are cute
<br>[15:08] Casias Falta: eryn has right idea
<br>[15:08] Cuteulala Artis: fire is jelous of me
<br>[15:08] Eryn Galen: proper safeguards rather Bob
<br>[15:08] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: we love ya
<br>[15:08] paulie Flomar: for those o us currently donating, are those donations still being accepted?
<br>[15:08] Sally Florin has a question
<br>[15:08] Eryn Galen: Sally, just ask
<br>[15:08] Hiro Protagonist: ask Sally
<br>[15:08] Cuteulala Artis: I am disapointed i cant do anything to help the server cost but its out of my control it seems
<br>[15:08] Lacchi Macchi is online.
<br>[15:08] Timber Wolfe: yeah we have all this going on and then people complaining about minor things like they cant attach their hair or something, and start bugging neb/key/dan to fix it for them
<br>[15:09] Oddball Otoole left the region.
<br>[15:09] Sally Florin: how can i donate to Hiro
<br>[15:09] Hiro Protagonist: it's ok y'all, dont sweat the server costs
<br>[15:09] Arielle Popstar: it will be the idea to stick close to opensim head?
<br>[15:09] Jeff Hall left the region.
<br>[15:09] Oddball Otoole entered the region (141.87 m).
<br>[15:09] Cuteulala Artis: We need to sweat it
<br>[15:09] Cuteulala Artis: lol
<br>[15:09] Hiro Protagonist: you can donate via the paypal link on the osgrid website
<br>[15:09] Eryn Galen: Cute, the main problem is getting the organization up to date
<br>[15:09] Hiro Protagonist: we need money yes
<br>[15:09] Mercalia Beck: yes should be still be making donations?
<br>[15:09] Sally Florin doesnt use paypal
<br>[15:09] Hiro Protagonist: but money is not the first thing we need
<br>[15:09] Cuteulala Artis: I have a paypal but its empty
<br>[15:09] Eryn Galen: Sally, credit card works too
<br>[15:09] Timber Wolfe: paypal is free, dont even need a paypal acct
<br>[15:09] Key Gruin: ho ahead Sally
<br>[15:09] Hiro Protagonist whispers: I think the most important thing I could say about donations right now is thank you because you are making it happen.
<br>[15:09] Cuteulala Artis: wait!
<br>[15:10] Hiro Protagonist whispers: I think the most important thing I could say about donations right now is thank you because you are making it happen.
<br>[15:10] Cuteulala Artis: can i use paypal
<br>[15:10] Cuteulala Artis: and like
<br>[15:10] Hiro Protagonist shouts: I think the most important thing I could say about donations right now is thank you because you are making it happen.
<br>[15:10] Cuteulala Artis: soem how tos smoney it in somewere
<br>[15:10] Hiro Protagonist: LOL I knew I could do it!
<br>[15:10] Eryn Galen: lol Hiro, got stuck on the button?
<br>[15:10] Richardus Raymaker: Vcards , debit cards maby option ? as long the can be used on internet ..
<br>[15:10] Hiro Protagonist: yes!
<br>[15:10] Jeff Hall entered the region (142.03 m).
<br>[15:10] Timber Wolfe: MO by snail mail
<br>[15:10] Hiro Protagonist: the second most important thing I can say about donations is please dont stop donating
<br>[15:10] Mercalia Beck: will we have to some time change out donation destination?
<br>[15:11] Eryn Galen: well to know OSgrid is not in immediate danger is a great relief. To know it wont make docking regions payable is another big one
<br>[15:11] Hiro Protagonist: One thing I can tell you about osgrid donations: not a damn red cent goes anywhere else but to make this grid happen
<br>[15:11] Cuteulala Artis: hell ill just mail some cash ahaha
<br>[15:11] Casias Falta: i have to go .o
<br>[15:11] Key Gruin: http://www.osgrid.org/index.php/donate
<br>[15:11] Hiro Protagonist: Thanks again Casias
<br>[15:11] Casias Falta: hope you can post some sort of summary someplace
<br>[15:11] Eryn Galen: Mercalia, nothing has changed yet. Its still the same account, the same organization - at least until March
<br>[15:11] Cuteulala Artis: Imma try getitng a prepaid card and see if i can donate that way
<br>[15:11] Hiro Protagonist: there will be a transcript of the meeting avaialble
<br>[15:11] Hiro Protagonist: Cute that should work actuaqlly
<br>[15:11] dan banner: on the wiki
<br>[15:12] Eryn Galen: Casias, I will put an article in the next Gazet as well, for everyone who doesnt read logs ;)
<br>[15:12] Cuteulala Artis: but thoes bastards will tax the heck otu the card
<br>[15:12] Casias Falta: cu all keep the faith
<br>[15:12] Cuteulala Artis: like as much as you put in
<br>[15:12] Cuteulala Artis: taxxedd
<br>[15:12] Mercalia Beck: I think the donation info on lbsa need to emphasised?
<br>[15:12] Walter Balazic left the region.
<br>[15:12] Casias Falta is offline.
<br>[15:12] Casias Falta left the region.
<br>[15:12] Richardus Raymaker: Cute. double check if you can use it with internet
<br>[15:12] dan banner: mercalia: theres two big signs
<br>[15:12] Eryn Galen: Mercalia, again, main problem is organizational, not monetary
<br>[15:12] Mercalia Beck: at moment seemt almost donate if u want to
<br>[15:12] Eryn Galen: donations are ok,
<br>[15:12] Eryn Galen: but if you want, give more,m hehehee
<br>[15:12] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: I think forr myself I will charge a small amount for hosted regions payable to osgrid
<br>[15:12] Key Gruin: you can pay with a credit or debit card through Paypal without having a Paypal account
<br>[15:12] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: and there are amny
<br>[15:12] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: many
<br>[15:13] Ethan Stone entered the region (142.93 m).
<br>[15:13] Cuteulala Artis: no i will create a savings account at charter one and get a creditcxard from them and tos smoney inside it and then to paypal
<br>[15:13] Timber Wolfe: yeah bob, you do a LOT of free hosting, that would be a good idea
<br>[15:13] Cuteulala Artis: will have to comute with my payee tho
<br>[15:13] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: yes
<br>[15:13] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: might weed the waste
<br>[15:13] Cuteulala Artis: i neevr tried it before tho
<br>[15:13] Cuteulala Artis: i never even touched a bank
<br>[15:13] Cuteulala Artis: but i know a savings is easier then a reg account
<br>[15:13] Timber Wolfe: yes, ppl tend to abadon free land
<br>[15:14] Ethan Stone left the region.
<br>[15:14] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: yes and return a year later to get mad
<br>[15:14] Jeeper Shim: lol
<br>[15:14] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: had that too
<br>[15:14] Timber Wolfe: cute- a savings acct can be used to fund a paypal payment easily
<br>[15:14] Eryn Galen: anything else we want to discuss then?
<br>[15:14] Timber Wolfe: no card needed
<br>[15:14] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: but yes a smal fee for each region
<br>[15:14] Arielle Popstar: people value the things they invest in
<br>[15:14] Cuteulala Artis: darn i cant steal the cute chairs
<br>[15:14] Han Held: Cute's funds are managed, she said.
<br>[15:14] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: from me and it payable to osgrid
<br>[15:14] Cuteulala Artis: :(
<br>[15:14] Eryn Galen: because otherwie, I'll send an invite to PrimWords ;)
<br>[15:15] Sarah Kline: why am I a 900lb gorilla?
<br>[15:15] vegaslon plutonian entered the region (141.96 m).
<br>[15:15] Eryn Galen: Ari, a certain amount of people maybe
<br>[15:15] Hiro Protagonist: LOL There's other chairs there Sarah!
<br>[15:15] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: Helolo Orb
<br>[15:15] Sarah Kline: heheh
<br>[15:15] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: good to see ya
<br>[15:15] Shez Oyen: ?
<br>[15:15] Cuteulala Artis: i sapose its easy to make thoes chairs tho hehe
<br>[15:15] Arielle Popstar: investing can take different forms Eryn
<br>[15:15] Orb Offcourse: hey bob
<br>[15:15] hippie balbozar: what time primwords?
<br>[15:15] Cornflakes Woodcock is offline.
<br>[15:15] Eryn Galen: I value the fact that there is no money on OSgrid highly. If that were to change, then I wouldnt be comfortable anymore
<br>[15:15] Jeff Hall left the region.
<br>[15:15] Jeff Hall entered the region (142.00 m).
<br>[15:15] Eryn Galen: hippie, the usual
<br>[15:16] Han Held: It depends, I tried osgrid for free and set up free regions...all free. Getting them free showed me the value they have so now I push my limited finances to keep a vps when I can.
<br>[15:16] hippie balbozar: ok
<br>[15:16] Sarah Kline: night all
<br>[15:16] Hiro Protagonist: Let me say one more thing to all you free regions hosters out there LOL
<br>[15:16] Han Held: so...free stuff has value too, in this case.
<br>[15:16] Sarah Kline is offline.
<br>[15:16] Snik Snoodle: ni ni sarah
<br>[15:16] Eryn Galen: night Sarah
<br>[15:16] Sarah Kline left the region.
<br>[15:16] Cuteulala Artis: Osgrid is highly important for me
<br>[15:16] Hiro Protagonist: Maybe ask you a question is better
<br>[15:16] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: ok Hiro
<br>[15:16] Cuteulala Artis: i am in a living situation were i dont make my own calls for monetary things
<br>[15:16] Hiro Protagonist: wth arent you charging if your services are good?
<br>[15:16] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: desire an dread
<br>[15:17] Hiro Protagonist: I mean, I appreciate charity, but c'mon, not everyone is a charity case
<br>[15:17] Hiro Protagonist: and the market is huge
<br>[15:17] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: dread the fact if its paid it better be good
<br>[15:17] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: yes
<br>[15:17] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: and also mostly out of commpassion
<br>[15:17] Hiro Protagonist: nobody can serve it all yet
<br>[15:17] Mercalia Beck: free = no guarantees
<br>[15:17] Eryn Galen: not everyone wants to mix up their passion and or hobby with money Hiro
<br>[15:17] Oddball Otoole left the region.
<br>[15:17] Cuteulala Artis: Osgrid is good we just complain to much ahahha
<br>[15:17] Hiro Protagonist: well compassion is a wonderful thing, but it tends to fuck up a good business model LOL
<br>[15:17] Eryn Galen: and as Mercalia says, if you charge, people expect ;)
<br>[15:17] Richardus Raymaker: Free regions is offcorse not really free. you still have the energy bill and network :O
<br>[15:17] Hiro Protagonist: Well, I deliver ;)
<br>[15:17] Han Held: More to the point, mix up their hobby with professional obligations and legal concerns...
<br>[15:17] Jalen Optera: and if someone pays you you feel like you need to support 24/7 and most cant do that
<br>[15:18] Hiro Protagonist: well, I try LOL
<br>[15:18] Eryn Galen: Hiro, not everyone wants to give that guarantee
<br>[15:18] Vivian Klees: I never saw anything mentioned if opensim core is going to keep relying on this grid to continue testing
<br>[15:18] Hiro Protagonist: I hear ya
<br>[15:18] Hiro Protagonist: It was more encouragement than criticism, honestly :)
<br>[15:18] Eryn Galen: hehe
<br>[15:18] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: yes
<br>[15:18] Hiro Protagonist: and a little rib pokin' :)
<br>[15:18] Eryn Galen: whats wrong with the business model of having your free renters donate to OSgrid?
<br>[15:18] Eryn Galen: hehehe
<br>[15:18] Arielle Popstar: s/l makes guarantees?
<br>[15:18] Han Held: I'd love to go into hosting, personally, but there's too many negatives for me personally to do so...I've thot about it tho!
<br>[15:19] Hiro Protagonist: LMAO@Arielle
<br>[15:19] Jeff Hall left the region.
<br>[15:19] Timber Wolfe: thats the problem they make in SL, it becomes a business with everyone there to make money off of, so you people renting parcels on their sims trying to make enough to pay the $295/mo tiers and many fail to keep a 100% occupancy anyway
<br>[15:19] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: its help from folks Like Orb and Dan that have made it possible to host region for all
<br>[15:19] Hiro Protagonist: Eryn: I like that attitude.
<br>[15:19] Eryn Galen: Ari, yes, to chuck you out without question if you are even suspected of violating their TOS ;)
<br>[15:19] Cuteulala Artis: Hehe i dont care what SL has to offer it cant beat osgrid
<br>[15:19] Akira Sonoda is offline.
<br>[15:19] Cuteulala Artis: i feel 100% more creative here reguardless of limitations
<br>[15:20] Cuteulala Artis: only like 2 limitations bother me thats it
<br>[15:20] Eryn Galen: Hiro, its Bobs ;)
<br>[15:20] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: osgrid is and will be the greatest opensim venue of all
<br>[15:20] Oddball Otoole entered the region (142.06 m).
<br>[15:20] Timber Wolfe: aye
<br>[15:20] Han Held: Hopefully
<br>[15:20] Cuteulala Artis: sitting and jumping
<br>[15:20] Cuteulala Artis: everything els i find a way around
<br>[15:20] Key Gruin: once you start charging your responsibilities increase manyfold
<br>[15:20] Tiffany Sicling: in SL, creativity starts with how many prims can you afford to pay for per month if on your own land
<br>[15:20] Han Held: It has been so far, it's been a good balance of free culture and commerce. Hopefully that balance remains
<br>[15:20] Eryn Galen: so if anyone of you guys know someone who knows about forming an organization in the US, let Hiro know ;)
<br>[15:20] Timber Wolfe: considering that every sim here would cost $295/mo in SL it's a real bargan here no one can complain about
<br>[15:21] Eryn Galen: if you know a lawyer who is willing to help, let Hiro know
<br>[15:21] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: well with current facturs im going to start
<br>[15:21] Timber Wolfe: i have formed non profits
<br>[15:21] Snik Snoodle: sadly I must scoot - but will catch up with the meeting logs later - ttfn for now everyone and tc :) x
<br>[15:21] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: and the proceeds are fowarded to osg
<br>[15:21] Timber Wolfe: but every state differs a little in requirements and fees
<br>[15:21] Sally Florin: bye Snik <3
<br>[15:21] Snik Snoodle left the region.
<br>[15:21] Eryn Galen: maybe thats an answer
<br>[15:21] Eryn Galen: form the non-profit somewhere else?
<br>[15:21] Hiro Protagonist: ;)
<br>[15:21] Timber Wolfe: here only need one person to form a non profit
<br>[15:21] Cuteulala Artis: Ok lets all stop talkign about the negatives :P lets hear the positives
<br>[15:21] Han Held: There's also the idea of being a "not for profit" instead of a "non profit"; the requirements are not as strict afaik
<br>[15:21] Cuteulala Artis: lol
<br>[15:21] Eryn Galen: I think it ties in with the person forming it
<br>[15:22] Arielle Popstar: what about that foundation thing that was set up recently?
<br>[15:22] Hiro Protagonist: I have to go bundle up the christmas tree and stuff it into the attic
<br>[15:22] Sally Florin: like tokelau eg
<br>[15:22] Eryn Galen: lol Hiro
<br>[15:22] Hiro Protagonist: Y'all feeel free to stick around and brainstorm,
<br>[15:22] paulie Flomar: Hiro, thx for the 411.
<br>[15:22] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: yes
<br>[15:22] Hiro Protagonist: let me know if you come up with anything good, I need all the help I can get
<br>[15:22] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: thank you Hiro
<br>[15:22] Tiffany Sicling: thanks for sharing this with us, Hiro!
<br>[15:22] Jalen Optera: thank you Hiro
<br>[15:22] Richardus Raymaker: opensim where GNU software ?
<br>[15:22] Hiro Protagonist: np Paulie :)
<br>[15:22] Greybeard Thinker: many thanks Hiro, especially for stepping up to the plate in the emergency
<br>[15:23] Eryn Galen: thanks Hiro
<br>[15:23] Mercalia Beck: yes Hiro
<br>[15:23] Mercalia Beck: thanks
<br>[15:23] Timber Wolfe: applause
<br>[15:23] Hiro Protagonist: Well, it was only an emergency until I stepped up.
<br>[15:23] Jeeper Shim: Thanks for the update Hiro
<br>[15:23] Eryn Galen: and thanks to dan and Key for sticking around ;)
<br>[15:23] Han Held: GNU isn't the only open-source game in town, Richardus; even if it's the best  ?
<br>[15:23] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: job well done
<br>[15:23] Jeeper Shim: and thanks for stepping up
<br>[15:23] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: for us its support
<br>[15:23] Richardus Raymaker: i know han, but its only question
<br>[15:23] Hiro Protagonist: Dan and Key are real hero's in this act :)
<br>[15:23] Han Held: Yes, thank you Dan and thank you Key for being there  ?
<br>[15:23] Hiro Protagonist: heros *
<br>[15:23] Hiro Protagonist: :)
<br>[15:23] Mercalia Beck: yes
<br>[15:24] Mercalia Beck: 3 of them
<br>[15:24] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: yes thxs dan an Key
<br>[15:24] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: Eryn an grey also
<br>[15:24] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: the team
<br>[15:24] Mercalia Beck: maybe need more in the team
<br>[15:24] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: first responders
<br>[15:24] Mercalia Beck: always woried me so few
<br>[15:24] Han Held: Yep, it would be awesome to see Eryn and Grey be formallized into the team if they want to be
<br>[15:24] Timber Wolfe: the global team :)
<br>[15:24] Eryn Galen: huh?
<br>[15:24] Eryn Galen: Grey and I have no official function Bob
<br>[15:24] Eryn Galen: not part of the team ;)
<br>[15:24] Oddball Otoole left the region.
<br>[15:24] Timber Wolfe: join and be part of the team eryn
<br>[15:24] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: oh but your help has been valuble
<br>[15:25] Greybeard Thinker: we only try our best to back our good admins here
<br>[15:25] Eryn Galen: which I think a lot more people do ;)
<br>[15:25] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: we have depened on you r help many times
<br>[15:25] dan banner: thanks guys
<br>[15:25] Eryn Galen: they are merely not as outspoken as I am, hehe
<br>[15:25] Han Held: Well, if y'all ever wanted to be nominated, I'd second the nominiation -a lot of ppl would, I think.
<br>[15:25] paulie Flomar: thank you, dan. :)
<br>[15:25] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: and dan as well as key
<br>[15:25] Hiro Protagonist: you dont have to have a title to contribute to our community
<br>[15:25] Eryn Galen: exactly Hiro
<br>[15:25] paulie Flomar: and Key. :)
<br>[15:25] Key Gruin: thanks folks :)
<br>[15:26] Arielle Popstar: awww Key is blushing ;)
<br>[15:26] Hiro Protagonist: LOL
<br>[15:26] Timber Wolfe: theres not much to forming a corporation and board of directors, the 401 C stuff thru the IRS is more complex
<br>[15:26] Eryn Galen: hihihi
<br>[15:26] Jeeper Shim: lol
<br>[15:26] Han Held: I'm gonna log, I'll look for the minutes which hopefully will be announced on twitter...
<br>[15:26] Hiro Protagonist: Honestly, I cant believe how relieved I am getting all that off my chest
<br>[15:26] Shelann Morane is offline.
<br>[15:26] Shelann Morane left the region.
<br>[15:26] Drizz McMillan is offline.
<br>[15:26] Key Gruin: yes Han
<br>[15:26] Eryn Galen: be wary with tax requirements for any business entity, Timber ;)
<br>[15:26] Hiro Protagonist: thanks for coming and listening
<br>[15:27] Bob.Solo @avirtualworld.dyndns.org:8002: yw Hiro thx for your help
<br>[15:27] Key Gruin: glad you could do it Hiro, thank you
<br>[15:27] Eryn Galen: our pleasure Hiro. I think if the community gets more info, it gets easier as well
<br>[15:27] Greybeard Thinker: was good to hear the truth Hiro, thanks for telling us
<br>[15:27] Han Held: Thanks Hiro for keeping us in the loop and being up front with us...take care, ya'll!