TownHallMeetingLog20120805

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[12:48] dan banner: howdy neb
[12:48] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[12:48] hippie.balbozar @24.142.30.147:9050: hi neb
[12:49] paulie Flomar: hey, neb!
[12:49] paulie Flomar: Howdeh, RR!
[12:49] hippie.balbozar @24.142.30.147:9050: hey rich
[12:49] Richardus Raymaker: hi all
[12:50] paulie Flomar: woot!
[12:51] dan banner: bbias
[12:52] Nebadon Izumi: k
[12:52] paulie Flomar: Howdy, Neovo!
[12:52] Neovo Geesink: Hello, I am doing good. Thanks paulie
[12:52] Neovo Geesink: Hello everyone!
[12:52] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[12:54] Richardus Raymaker: hello neovo neb
[12:55] Richardus Raymaker: who's going to invent the 10TB plastic storage cube that not cost more then dollar/cube ?
[12:55] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:55] paulie Flomar: itll happen
[12:55] Sarah Kline: hi all
[12:55] dan banner: hi sarah
[12:55] Richardus Raymaker: hi sarah. sofar i know the have already made something like that
[12:56] paulie Flomar: Hey, sarah. :)
[12:56] Franziska Bossi: hewo alll
[12:56] Franziska Bossi: eep!!
[12:56] Richardus Raymaker: eep franzi. just bake a bit longer.
[12:56] paulie Flomar: hey, Franzi!
[12:56] Richardus Raymaker: hello selea
[12:56] Franziska Bossi: =(-,-)=HuHu =(-,-)=
[12:56] Franziska Bossi: pauly
[12:56] Sarah Kline: Hi Franz
[12:57] Franziska Bossi: paulie
[12:57] Selea Core: hi Richardus
[12:57] Franziska Bossi: Sarah
[12:57] Selea Core: hi everyone
[12:57] dan banner: hello selea
[12:57] Franziska Bossi: hi Selen
[12:57] Lani Global: Greetings gridlings!
[12:57] Nebadon Izumi: SDXC cards support up to 2tb
[12:57] Franziska Bossi: hi Lani
[12:57] Nebadon Izumi: but probably super expensive
[12:57] Franziska Bossi: hi Neb
[12:57] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone even makes one that big yet
[12:57] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[12:57] Richardus Raymaker: but you cant buy them for 1 $
[12:58] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: i win :)
[12:58] Franziska Bossi: -*- loOl -*-
[12:58] Richardus Raymaker: some super floppy disk would be nice to have back. very cheap and 2TB storage or so
[12:58] dan banner: i remember when 40gb drives were insanely big
[12:58] dan banner: lol
[12:58] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: you look tied up Frank ;)
[12:58] Franziska Bossi: needs choclate
[12:58] Neovo Geesink: Well 10 Tb on a plastic cube is nothing.... Once they get the hang of atomic level switching, a Cube from 1*1*1 centimetres can hold a Gazillion bits or more....
[12:58] dan banner: erp
[12:58] UUID Speaker: Lewis Burford: dab991ba-a7b8-4a12-8f84-3ff395ed6c2d
[12:58] dan banner: i mean 40mb
[12:58] dan banner: lol
[12:58] Richardus Raymaker: 40GB ? 10MB hdd's where already good for weightlifting
[12:58] David north: hello everyone
[12:59] Lani Global: http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2012/08/linden-lab-cuts-viewer-link-to-opensim/
[12:59] dan banner: hey david
[12:59] Selea Core: hi David
[12:59] Richardus Raymaker: Yup lani, we know.
[12:59] Lani Global: the news about no more -loginURI is sweeping thru the opensim community
[12:59] dan banner: already swept through lani
[12:59] Richardus Raymaker: only thing that sucks you cant use the newer default LL sl3 anymore then
[12:59] Neovo Geesink: Ah those MFM drives..... Dual Height 5 1/4" drives.... Torques the wall down when you fire one up when hanging on a wall.... :-))
[12:59] Sarah Kline: thats why we have grid managers in viewers
[13:00] dan banner: ive already hacked their SL only viewer
[13:00] Sarah Kline: lols
[13:00] dan banner: and it works here
[13:00] Lani Global: it seems that most TPVs will have grid managers... but this may be "a sign from the universe" that some other technical roadblocks may be thrown up by LL at some point soon.
[13:00] Lewis Burford: I like how we cross legs :D
[13:00] paulie Flomar: will LL take further steps to acvtively keep any viewer that isnt on the TPV list from connecting?
[13:00] Richardus Raymaker: yes sara, but not the stock LL
[13:01] dan banner: it means a serious viewer or three will probably be developed with opensim in mind
[13:01] paulie Flomar: oh, Lani: saw the same point up there ^
[13:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya as of today its not really a problem
[13:01] Jeeper Shim: hi everyone
[13:01] Nebadon Izumi: it all really depends on how the TPV projects move forward
[13:01] paulie Flomar: I see LL goin down the road of blocking viewers.
[13:01] Selea Core: hi Jeeper
[13:01] Richardus Raymaker: othgerwise we can only drink tea, or make some fire
[13:01] Nebadon Izumi: if the TPV viewers sign the agreement to get the havok libraries
[13:01] Nebadon Izumi: those viewers will not be able to have a grid manager
[13:02] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: maybe it is just LL making noiuse for Havocs sake
[13:02] Nebadon Izumi: they will need to have 2 seperate viewers, one for SLL one for OpenSim
[13:02] Lani Global: LL seems to be entering some kind of "bunker mentality" probably due to upheaval in executive level, combined with negative growth numbers in this quarter.
[13:02] Franziska Bossi: oops
[13:02] dan banner: i really dont understand what havok is worried about if the server doesnt have support for havok the libs are useless on opensim
[13:02] paulie Flomar: gotta run to another meeting. Ill check the meeting transcript laters. yall have fun now. :)
[13:03] Richardus Raymaker: what i still dont understandm, if the sign the papers. why are the still allowed to make opensim viewer then. or its split in 2 groups of developers ?
[13:03] Nebadon Izumi: for havok its about money
[13:03] Richardus Raymaker: aww pauli. bye
[13:03] Nebadon Izumi: their License basically says when you buy a license it can only be used no that one project
[13:03] Franziska Bossi: oh
[13:03] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: well there is free havoc stuff available so maybe it could be used
[13:03] Lani Global: So, they may think they "have nothing to lose" now by barring TPVs from having anything to do with OpenSim... we should prepare for other roadblocks.
[13:03] Nebadon Izumi: if LL were to start another VW or build another game that used Havok
[13:03] Nebadon Izumi: they would have to purchase a 2nd license
[13:03] dan banner: ahh makes sense in that aspect i suppose
[13:03] Richardus Raymaker: well, i heare rumours about that to
[13:03] Nebadon Izumi: they couldnt use their SL license for other projects
[13:04] dan banner: ari: the free havok will never be used in opensim
[13:04] Nebadon Izumi: Havok is pretty strict about it
[13:04] Nebadon Izumi: they always have been
[13:04] Nebadon Izumi: the free Havok is very limited
[13:04] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: says who Dan?
[13:04] Nebadon Izumi: it doesnt even have the stuff that LL is using I suspect
[13:04] dan banner: its a windows binary for one
[13:05] Lani Global: The losers in this situation are Those of us who keep 2 instances (or more) of the same viewer open in both OpenSim and Second Life.
[13:05] Lani Global: also, Those of us who go back and forth a few times per day between OpenSim and Second Life activities.
[13:05] dan banner: hows that lani?
[13:05] Lani Global: @dan - if LL starts ratcheting up roadblocks.
[13:05] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: just keeps them more seperated which is a good thing anyway
[13:06] dan banner: use sl viewer on sl and an opensim viewer here
[13:06] Sarah Kline: simple
[13:06] Richardus Raymaker: ohh, i never use the same viewer in 2 grids. just to avoid already screwups
[13:06] dan banner: ya
[13:06] Lani Global: yes, there will always be workarounds.... but the point is, it makes it more difficult
[13:06] Nebadon Izumi: right now its not a huge deal
[13:06] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: i am thinking thats where we get clouds from
[13:06] dan banner: i dont even like using the same avatar name in both places
[13:06] Nebadon Izumi: it really depends on what the TPV projects do from this point forward
[13:06] Nebadon Izumi: we'll likely loose the use of some viewers
[13:06] Nebadon Izumi: like Nirans, Exodus
[13:06] dan banner: sure
[13:06] Nebadon Izumi: maybe some others
[13:06] Nebadon Izumi: maybe Dolphin
[13:07] Nebadon Izumi: those are not real popular viewers anyway
[13:07] Nebadon Izumi: Firestorm will make a opensim only version
[13:07] Lewis Burford: Will imprudence be ok?
[13:07] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: but make the others more compatible with opensim
[13:07] Nebadon Izumi: Tea Pot will likely be fine
[13:07] Richardus Raymaker: We get clouds from people that use old viewers in my feeling
[13:07] Lani Global: well, looking at the huge number of phoenix and imprudence users here...
[13:07] dan banner: imprudence is dead
[13:07] Nebadon Izumi: not sure what Kokua will do
[13:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya Imprudence is unlikely to get anymore updates
[13:07] Nebadon Izumi: so Imprudence will not be effected
[13:07] Nebadon Izumi: it will always work here
[13:07] Lani Global: the result of all this may be that some TPVs will need to maintain 2 forks.
[13:08] Richardus Raymaker: kokua is ready for use.. thats what i know
[13:08] Nebadon Izumi: it might loose its TPV status, at some point
[13:08] Nebadon Izumi: but thats ok
[13:08] Nebadon Izumi: Imprudence has none of the Havok stuff in it
[13:08] Nebadon Izumi: never will
[13:08] Richardus Raymaker: and no mesh to
[13:08] Nebadon Izumi: all the viewers that work right now will continue to work likely
[13:08] Richardus Raymaker: and no nice lightning support
[13:08] Dove Sundown: I not be here long what is the best viewer????
[13:09] Nebadon Izumi: really depends, there probably is no one best viewer
[13:09] Nebadon Izumi: its really what is best for what your doing
[13:09] Frank Northmead: Dove Tea Pot or Firestorm
[13:09] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: curious to see what Opensim devs will do as far as staying parallel in features to s/l
[13:09] Richardus Raymaker: i cannot point 1 really as good/perfect.
[13:09] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: over the long term
[13:09] Sarah Kline: we need to support TPV's all of them if poss
[13:09] Sarah Kline: not just one
[13:09] Nebadon Izumi: well we will probably stay pretty close to the SL functionality for a while
[13:09] Nebadon Izumi: this is unlikely to prompt anyone to create a totally new viewer
[13:09] Sarah Kline: i mean encourage
[13:10] Nebadon Izumi: even if someone did start a totally new viewer project today
[13:10] Wordfromthe Wise: @Richardus: Singularity has Windlight/Lightshare support and works great on opensim
[13:10] Nebadon Izumi: it would be years before it was any kind of replacement
[13:10] Dove Sundown: thanks
[13:10] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org:9005: and now with multipoint attachments
[13:10] Sarah Kline: so stop the viewer wars
[13:10] Dove Sundown: I like OS
[13:11] Nebadon Izumi: I think in the short term, Firestorm will probably end up being the predominent OpenSim viewer
[13:11] Richardus Raymaker: WoW, i use singulairty. thats the ost close one thats useable
[13:11] Nebadon Izumi: it will really be the only viewer that truly complies to SL's requests and also supports, Windows, Mac and Linux
[13:11] dan banner: they are the most capable team to develop two viewers
[13:11] Richardus Raymaker: but SIngulairty is not SL3 based
[13:11] Nebadon Izumi: its possible Cool Viewer might comply too
[13:11] Nebadon Izumi: Singularity probably will too
[13:12] Nebadon Izumi: but Singularity updates do not come real fast either
[13:12] Lani Global: i'm inclined to agree about Firestorm... since they have committed publicly to support opensim recently
[13:12] Nebadon Izumi: its just 1 person working on that viewer
[13:12] Nebadon Izumi: same as Zen viewer
[13:12] Nebadon Izumi: just 1 person
[13:12] Lani Global: firestorm is most popular in SL and rapidly becoming popular in OpenSim
[13:12] Nebadon Izumi: I fear the 1 dev viewer projects will probably in the end have to choose between supporting SL and OpenSim
[13:12] Wordfromthe Wise: Neb: Tehy have this unofficial viewer download page .. a lot of versions where coming in the last 3 weeks ..
[13:12] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, there alpha's for dowbload neb. i use alpha to fix sound bug
[13:12] Wordfromthe Wise: https://files.streamgrid.net/singularity/
[13:12] Nebadon Izumi: and i suspect most of them will end up supporting SL
[13:13] Nebadon Izumi: Singularity might be the exception there
[13:13] Richardus Raymaker: As soon Firestorm have fixt the UI problem i can use it again
[13:13] Nebadon Izumi: I guess Tea Pot could be categorized there too
[13:14] Richardus Raymaker: hmm
[13:15] Dove Sundown: I want to use the best one
[13:15] Nebadon Izumi: Best is relative
[13:15] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[13:15] Nebadon Izumi: you really just need to find one you like
[13:15] Richardus Raymaker: or one that dont bug you
[13:16] Selea Core: i use what is best for my machine ... and my building needs
[13:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats really the best thing you can do
[13:16] Dove Sundown: yes that what I am looking for one that I can work with
[13:16] Richardus Raymaker: think the best one right now is singularity. and it shows mesh
[13:16] stiofain nbmcmedia: i want a totally basic one that will attract newbs for a pain free look
[13:16] Richardus Raymaker: it load a sim fast to, teapot is slow with loading
[13:17] Nebadon Izumi: I like Zen viewer
[13:17] Nebadon Izumi: i just wish it worked on Mac and Linux too
[13:17] Selea Core: right now i went back to Imprudence 1.32 ... because it takes less ressources ... i don't have a strong machine nor graphic card
[13:17] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon, is the 404 window already fixt ?
[13:17] Nebadon Izumi: no not yet
[13:17] Zia Frimon: I like Phx as thats what iv become used to. However, Firestorm seems to have a lot of interesting upgrades. however, why do they insist on changing the location of everything we get used to? ( I know... i sound like a newbie LOL )
[13:17] Nebadon Izumi: last I heard Zena was taking a vacation or something
[13:17] Lani Global: looking around... imprudence is the most common viewer in this room
[13:17] Richardus Raymaker: i waiting for that fix before i try zen again
[13:17] Nebadon Izumi: new updates would not happen for a while
[13:17] Nebadon Izumi: perhaps even after summer
[13:17] Nebadon Izumi: before we see anymore Zen updates
[13:17] Lani Global: at some point, will OSGrid have a new "Recommended Viewer"?
[13:17] Nebadon Izumi: maybe Lani
[13:18] Nebadon Izumi: right now I dont think there is anything that is really suitable
[13:18] Nebadon Izumi: as a replacement
[13:18] dan banner: teapot runs pretty good too
[13:18] Richardus Raymaker: windows users are in this case a bit lucky
[13:18] Nebadon Izumi: Tea Pot is not a production viewer
[13:18] Frank Northmead: tea pot doesn't have IMs workign for me.
[13:18] Sarah Kline: IF the opensim flavor of FS starts with the grid manager enabled
[13:18] Nebadon Izumi: its also really just 1 dev who is working on multiple viewers
[13:18] Richardus Raymaker: teapot is issing functions in edit
[13:18] Frank Northmead: I assume that will get fixed soon
[13:18] Selea Core: besides, two of the most importants commands are at the web site ... purge appearance and empty trash ... thank youuuu ... giggles
[13:19] Lani Global: the number of mesh viewers in widespread use has reached "the tipping point" its now over 50%
[13:19] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: camera and movement controls dont work for me
[13:19] Sarah Kline: yay
[13:19] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: but IM does
[13:19] Nebadon Izumi: perhaps, but for us to make a viewer our recommended viewer
[13:19] Nebadon Izumi: it really needs to have support for Windows, mac and Linux
[13:19] Nebadon Izumi: and be real easy to get into the grid
[13:19] dan banner: lani: last i checked it was like 51% imprudence
[13:19] Nebadon Izumi: is the Grid Manager enabled by default in Firestorm?
[13:20] Nebadon Izumi: thats one reason I refuse to support Firestorm at this point on our download list
[13:20] Richardus Raymaker: sofar i know no nebadon
[13:20] Sarah Kline: I dont know will have to ask armin
[13:20] Nebadon Izumi: because its just too difficult to get the grid manager enabled
[13:20] dan banner: ya
[13:20] Lani Global: not any more difficult than setting up a -loginURI
[13:20] dan banner: it should be enabled by default
[13:20] Richardus Raymaker: hmm open preferences and go to advanced i think there's checkbox
[13:20] Nebadon Izumi: we'll end up spending 1/2 our time explaining to new people how to get into the grid
[13:20] Nebadon Izumi: im no going to do that
[13:20] Richardus Raymaker: yes
[13:21] Sarah Kline: its harder to put a sim on the grid
[13:21] Sarah Kline: region
[13:21] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: then what about firestorm/phoenix?
[13:21] Nebadon Izumi: its bad enough that OSgrid isnt even the default grid
[13:21] Lani Global: yes, i suspect that with new "OpenSim support" in Firestorm, they will have a grid manager by default
[13:21] Nebadon Izumi: let alone not having the grid manager enabled by default
[13:21] Sarah Kline: i think they will too Lani
[13:21] Zia Frimon: One would think one could put together a list of most needed and wanted functions as well as how robust a viewer is as criteria for naming a "preferred viewer" No?
[13:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya hopefully Lani
[13:21] Nebadon Izumi: we'll just have to see how that unfolds
[13:21] dan banner: ari phoenix will go away
[13:21] Sarah Kline: when they fork for real
[13:21] jazzy chatterbox: i just d/l firestorm this week....took two to explain to me how to enable the grid manager to use it here.....if that is anything to go by..haha
[13:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya Jazzy, it took me 15 minutes to figure it out
[13:22] Nebadon Izumi: if i cant figure it out
[13:22] Nebadon Izumi: no one will be able to on their own
[13:22] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[13:22] Lani Global: however.... right now Phoenix Viewer 1.6.1 (1691) works very well here in OSGRid, has mesh, has Grid Manager with OSGrid enabled by default
[13:22] Frank Northmead: It has too many features, but it works.
[13:22] Zia Frimon: Thats my bitch... Changing the location of a thing that worked before they fix it.
[13:22] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: Phoenix is the most stable for me here
[13:22] Selea Core: Sarah had to help me when I tried it
[13:22] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: has mesh and grid manager
[13:23] Sarah Kline: well I dont think we have to worry about not having a viewer here ^^
[13:23] Lani Global: yes, Phoenix is a v1 viewer with a lot of v2/v3 implmentations, very stable in opensim now
[13:23] dan banner: exactly sarah
[13:23] Richardus Raymaker: firestorm -> menu -> preferences -> advanced -> "allow login to other grids"
[13:23] Richardus Raymaker: only always need to look, cant remeber
[13:24] Nebadon Izumi: ya so we'll see for Now Imprudence will stay the default
[13:24] Selea Core: yay!!
[13:24] Selea Core: whewww
[13:24] Zia Frimon: LOL
[13:24] Nebadon Izumi: but hopefully soon we can get something newer and better
[13:24] Lani Global: but, imprudence: No Mesh.
[13:24] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: no mesh support and old as the hills
[13:24] Sarah Kline: Just Move Zen up to first spot )
[13:24] Lynne Lundquist: yep
[13:24] dan banner: no linux or mac for zen
[13:24] Nebadon Izumi: Zen is Windows only
[13:25] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: may as well put hippo back on the page
[13:25] Sarah Kline: oh right forgot sorry
[13:25] Richardus Raymaker: thats slow
[13:25] Selea Core: for some reason i can't use Zen ... it does not allow me in unless i go to one of the plazas first
[13:25] Wordfromthe Wise says: The Singularity Guys promised me that with the next official release they will add OSGRID to thier Gridmanager list ...
[13:25] Lani Global highly recommends Phoenix Viewer 1.6.1 (1691) be added to OSGRid recommendation (secondary to imprudence) as a mesh viewer...
[13:26] Boba Solo: what does IBM use with there hardned opensim
[13:26] stiofain nbmcmedia: start from scratch
[13:26] Nebadon Izumi: I have been asking Siana Gearz to add osgrid for a long time Wordfromthe Wise
[13:26] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: agrees with Lani
[13:26] Zia Frimon: Phx recomended... yes yes
[13:26] Nebadon Izumi: but even if she does, it still doesnt support all 3 Operating systems
[13:26] Zia Frimon: I never have any throuble
[13:26] Zia Frimon: oh true
[13:26] Lynne Lundquist: Singularity is good for me too.
[13:27] Richardus Raymaker: sofar its the best and most bugfree version
[13:27] Selea Core: Singularity wharps textures for me ... not sure if it has to do with my graphic card
[13:27] Nebadon Izumi: well what I dont want to do is switch over to phoenix as our main viewer
[13:27] Nebadon Izumi: and find out there are tons of issues
[13:27] Nebadon Izumi: and no one to fix them
[13:27] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: there is less then in IMP
[13:27] Nebadon Izumi: its my understanding that Pheonix is dead
[13:27] dan banner: ya phoenix is going away i hear
[13:27] Nebadon Izumi: in terms of deveopment
[13:27] Richardus Raymaker: phoenix is bad. there's still no new version with fixt snapshot to disk
[13:27] Sarah Kline: its still got that bridge thing
[13:27] Lani Global: by continuing to recommend imprudence we give most noobs a bad impression of our grid
[13:28] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: imp has been gone for months so phoenix much more recent
[13:28] Lynne Lundquist: I agree with Lani
[13:28] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think switching to phoenix would change that
[13:28] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[13:28] Lani Global: RR, phoenix has snapshot to disk, works great
[13:28] Nebadon Izumi: Very few people are using mesh
[13:28] Lynne Lundquist: No mesh is a big prob
[13:28] Nebadon Izumi: if thats the only reason its not a good one
[13:28] Cornflakes Woodcock: Yo
[13:28] Richardus Raymaker: No lani. its broken. its know bug. only it works for some
[13:28] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: but imp doesnt even let you saee it
[13:28] Nebadon Izumi: right
[13:28] Richardus Raymaker: pheonix have mesh
[13:28] Lani Global: so, take a screenshot.
[13:28] Nebadon Izumi: I would prefer we move on to something thats currently going to continue with development
[13:29] Nebadon Izumi: i do not want to switch to something thats virtually dead
[13:29] Frank Northmead: that would be firestorm and teapot
[13:29] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: then dump imp
[13:29] Sarah Kline: good idea Neb
[13:29] Nebadon Izumi: in terms of bug fixes and development
[13:29] Richardus Raymaker: but i really need snapshot to disk. and maby something else where rong ?
[13:29] Zia Frimon: Welcome Captain Cornflakes :)
[13:29] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: we have had imp on that list long after they stopped deving it
[13:29] Nebadon Izumi: I would dump imprudence if there was another viewer that was a suitable replacement
[13:29] Richardus Raymaker: i think its bad to choice as new viewer again a SL1. best is to go sl3 based
[13:29] Nebadon Izumi: Phoenix is not
[13:29] Lani Global: we are currently using mesh in the sci fi space RP sims
[13:29] Nebadon Izumi: if we switch over to phoenix
[13:29] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: as we had hippo before that
[13:29] Nebadon Izumi: and tons of bugs start happening
[13:29] Nebadon Izumi: no one will fix them
[13:29] Nebadon Izumi: Phoenix dev is dead
[13:30] Selea Core: not everyone is into mesh?
[13:30] Nebadon Izumi: we just trade one dead viewer for another
[13:30] Nebadon Izumi: and potentially create tons of more support issues
[13:30] Zia Frimon: But everyone needs the ability to see mesh or at least not crash on it.
[13:30] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: then put in firestorm or singularity
[13:30] Richardus Raymaker: selea, but its bad if people cant see mesh
[13:30] Lani Global: its the best thing we have for all operating systems at the present time, should be fine for the next 6 months
[13:30] Nebadon Izumi: Phoenix will not gaurantee that
[13:30] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: anything other then imp
[13:30] Nebadon Izumi: even if we did make that the default
[13:30] Lani Global: it is mature and very stable
[13:30] stiofain nbmcmedia: i aghee any sl viewer is a bad starting point
[13:31] Nebadon Izumi: Imprudence will still be very popular
[13:31] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: only because osgrid recommends it
[13:31] Sarah Kline: It's best to wait and see
[13:31] dan banner: i agree
[13:31] Nebadon Izumi: I would prefer to wait until FIrestorm has a full OpenSim only viewer
[13:31] Lani Global: i'm just recommending Phoenix Viewer 1.6.1 (1691) as a secondary choice from imprudence
[13:31] Nebadon Izumi: then start testing that
[13:31] Nebadon Izumi: and if it goes well we use that
[13:31] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: sounds like another year
[13:32] Richardus Raymaker: err 1.6.1 ? that buggy version ? betetr use the 1.7.0
[13:32] Zia Frimon: Thats a good idea Neb
[13:32] Zia Frimon: (i think)
[13:32] Nebadon Izumi: I have run Phoenix myself before, and honestly
[13:32] Nebadon Izumi: i do not like it
[13:32] Lani Global: heck we are using a year old ver of imprudence as our recommendation?
[13:32] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: yes
[13:32] Taarna Welles: Is there any comment yet from the Firestorm dev team?
[13:32] Zia Frimon: So what would be the criteria that we are looking at for our recomending?
[13:32] Lani Global: what is there "not to like" about a feature rich multi-os viewer?
[13:33] Nebadon Izumi: the Criteria i want, is that the viewer is still being developed and supported
[13:33] Nebadon Izumi: and that it works on Windows, Mac and Linux
[13:33] Richardus Raymaker: the 1.6 singularity have some terrible bugs in edit
[13:33] Zia Frimon: Thats a good start!
[13:33] Nebadon Izumi: and that it has a Grid Manager enabled by default
[13:33] dan banner: and osgrid in the list
[13:33] Nebadon Izumi: if it doesnt meet those its not a suitable replacement
[13:33] Lani Global: phoenix at the present time fullfills 95% of that neb
[13:33] Zia Frimon: Good idea
[13:33] Sarah Kline: Lani
[13:33] Sarah Kline: its not being worked on anymore
[13:33] Lani Global: it has OSGrid in its Grid Manager by default
[13:33] Zia Frimon: TY :)
[13:34] Lani Global: no need to "enable" anything
[13:34] Nebadon Izumi: all I can say is Phoenix is not used much here on OSgrid
[13:34] Frank Northmead: A suitable replacement could be better than what we have and working towards what we want.
[13:34] Lani Global: its there when you fire it up
[13:34] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: Sarah, it is still more up to date then Imp
[13:34] Nebadon Izumi: we really do not know how things would unfold if we had everyone using it
[13:34] Nebadon Izumi: one thing that bothers me too about it
[13:34] Nebadon Izumi: is that scripting bridge thing
[13:34] Nebadon Izumi: that leaves junk prims
[13:34] dan banner: ya
[13:34] Sarah Kline: you can turn that off
[13:34] Zia Frimon: So, is a side line to viewer upadte and stability to pave the way for easer transition from SL for OS newbies?
[13:34] Nebadon Izumi: yes but unless its off by default
[13:35] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: maybe if we had phoenix as osgrid recommend it may push further development
[13:35] Nebadon Izumi: its a disasater
[13:35] Lani Global: easy to turn off
[13:35] Nebadon Izumi: sure for you
[13:35] Sarah Kline: yes but i can see Nebs point
[13:35] Nebadon Izumi: but for us who sit in IRC supporting the grid
[13:35] Nebadon Izumi: it generates a ton more work
[13:35] Key Gruin: I thought Firestorm is building a seperate version for opensim
[13:35] Nebadon Izumi: they are Key
[13:35] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: write a post in forums and point new ones to it
[13:35] Franziska Bossi: puh
[13:35] Franziska Bossi: back
[13:35] Nebadon Izumi: but i have no ETA on whent hat will actually happen either
[13:35] Key Gruin: all those annoyances can be taken care of
[13:36] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: seems to be the usual thing on irc these days
[13:36] Zia Frimon: How about a two part recomdntation. One for the savy and one for the new and not so?
[13:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya, I think the best thing for now is to wait and see what plays out with Firestorm
[13:36] Lani Global: it may be 3 months before the OpenSim features of Firestorm approach what is in Phoenix Viewer 1.6.1 (1691) right now
[13:37] Sarah Kline: When the havoc code goes into the main LL viewer thats when the fork will happen i guess
[13:37] Nebadon Izumi: are you using Mesh in your sims now Lani?
[13:37] Lani Global: i do agree that firestorm is our best choice later in the future
[13:37] Lani Global: yes
[13:37] Lani Global: we started last month adding mesh to the sims
[13:37] Lani Global: we considered OSG5B to be "the big mesh kickoff"
[13:37] Nebadon Izumi: ok well I am not going to make any decisions today
[13:38] Key Gruin: I think too many people use Imprudence only because it's recommended
[13:38] Nebadon Izumi: I would like to hear a bit more from some viewer devs
[13:38] Nebadon Izumi: before we make any decisions
[13:38] Nebadon Izumi: see what Armin says
[13:38] Nebadon Izumi: since he is heading up the Firestorm OpenSim stuff
[13:38] Key Gruin: yeah
[13:38] Lani Global: yes, armin is close to it, good advisor for it
[13:39] Frank Northmead: Armin said last night that if he is forced to make a choice he will support OS and not SL, but he hopes he is not forced to make that choice.
[13:39] Key Gruin: too bad he's not here
[13:39] Selea Core: i use Imprudence because it suits my machine, graphic card and building needs ... not because it's recommended at the site ... not all of us have powerful machines or graphic cards?
[13:39] Richardus Raymaker: i like to see firestorm, but then if possible with working editor for me
[13:39] Lani Global: at present time: Phoenix has grid manager with OSGrid by default. Firestorm doesnt yet.
[13:39] Nebadon Izumi: Frank, I think the choice has already been made
[13:39] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[13:39] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: adoption of mesh on osg is not going to happen till imp is no longer recommended viewer
[13:39] stiofain nbmcmedia: onefang shud get more support his meta-impy viewer while limited in functions is the closest thing to an os viewer
[13:39] Frank Northmead: I agree neb, just letting you know what he said.
[13:39] Key Gruin: I understand Selea
[13:39] Nebadon Izumi: honestly stiofain, i dont care if onefang made the best viewer ever
[13:39] Nebadon Izumi: i would not support it here
[13:39] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[13:39] Sarah Kline: )
[13:40] Selea Core: thank you Key :)
[13:40] stiofain nbmcmedia: lol i can understand that neb
[13:40] Wordfromthe Wise: why Neb ?
[13:40] Nebadon Izumi: I dont want to get into why, lets just say I dont trust him
[13:40] Key Gruin: but many necomers use Imp when they could be better off using a V3
[13:40] Zia Frimon: Sounds like he pissed him off thats why. LOL
[13:40] Wordfromthe Wise: ok .. uups
[13:41] stiofain nbmcmedia: i just think instead of plumping for a sl viewer that has latest whizzbang stuff the prob shud be looked at from other side
[13:41] Lani Global: the longer we continue to officially recommend an old non-mesh viewer, the longer it will be before most users have a mesh experience in osgrid.
[13:41] stiofain nbmcmedia: ie simplified
[13:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya, there is no easy answer unfortunately
[13:41] Boba Solo: Zen will render mesh
[13:41] Boba Solo: and its listed
[13:41] Nebadon Izumi: thats one thing that i kind of do not like about Phoenix/Firestorm
[13:41] Nebadon Izumi: they are not simplified
[13:41] Richardus Raymaker: and zen can upload mesh to
[13:42] Nebadon Izumi: yes but Zen is windows only
[13:42] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately
[13:42] Boba Solo: oh rite
[13:42] Boba Solo: yes
[13:42] Boba Solo: darn
[13:42] Wordfromthe Wise: to switch topic for a short moment ; how long will the osg5b regions online and will they be preserved ?
[13:42] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: phoenix still more simple then any V3 viewer
[13:42] Nebadon Izumi: otherwise Zen would already be our recommended viewer
[13:42] Zia Frimon: So, looking at the crietria qhat viewer fit that bill?
[13:42] Boba Solo: yes
[13:42] Nebadon Izumi: Wordfromthe Wise, i have no take down date
[13:42] Boba Solo: thx
[13:42] Nebadon Izumi: I will keep them up for a while
[13:42] Wordfromthe Wise: ok ..
[13:42] Nebadon Izumi: the server is not really doing much else
[13:42] Mercalia Beck: many ppl have remvoed their stuff
[13:42] Nebadon Izumi: oh did they?
[13:42] Nebadon Izumi: that sucks
[13:43] Nebadon Izumi: wonder why they did that
[13:43] Boba Solo: wow
[13:43] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, and eryn asked to kepe the stuff
[13:43] Cornflakes Woodcock: Not on west
[13:43] Lani Global: because nobody briefed them
[13:43] Wordfromthe Wise: yes mayby bbecause tehy are unsure what will happen with the exhibits
[13:43] Richardus Raymaker: eryn did send a notice around
[13:43] Cornflakes Woodcock: All is still there
[13:43] Lewis Burford: i agree nebadon about firestorm/pheonix not better simplifyed.
[13:43] Wordfromthe Wise: thats why i asked so i can give some word when i be asked ...
[13:43] Sarah Kline: you got oars from that week though
[13:43] Lewis Burford: being*
[13:43] Nebadon Izumi: they were afriad we would erase their exhbits so they erased them for us?
[13:43] Lani Global: however, there were OARs made the day before OSG5B opened.
[13:43] Nebadon Izumi: that doesnt make much sense
[13:43] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[13:43] Selea Core: i have a question off topic also ... is there an answer to have most information coming from one source? ... right now we have IRC for help, the forum for multiple stuff and since a few months a go ... a Twitter feed on the main page
[13:43] stiofain nbmcmedia: i left mine and all others on south were there last i looked
[13:43] Nebadon Izumi: anyway I'll leave them up for now
[13:43] Lani Global: they were just being courteous.
[13:44] Nebadon Izumi: people are of course free to do what they want with their exhibits
[13:44] Nebadon Izumi: if they want they can put them back out
[13:44] Richardus Raymaker: selea, thats to many sources.. :\
[13:44] Lani Global: they didnt want to not "cleanup after themselves"
[13:44] Marcus Llewellyn: I just grabbed a copy of my exhibit as a collated object and stuck in a folder. :)
[13:44] Selea Core: i know Richardus, it's why i'm asking
[13:44] Nebadon Izumi: ok well thats a shame, kind of ironic but not a big deal really
[13:44] Wordfromthe Wise: like me .. and rerezzed it on my regions to enhance them ..
[13:45] Lani Global: just load the OAR
[13:45] Nebadon Izumi: ok well you could always just put a Landmark giver or something
[13:45] Cornflakes Woodcock: Actually i think most of the thingys are still there on the OSG5Bs
[13:45] Lewis Burford: Will osgrid still be up?
[13:45] Wordfromthe Wise: did we get a .oar ??
[13:45] Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure what kind of oars we have for them
[13:45] dan banner: i think db dumps
[13:46] Marcus Llewellyn: I seem to remember an announcement that OARs were made just before the official opening date.
[13:46] Wordfromthe Wise: ok
[13:46] Nebadon Izumi: I think at this point though because of time limitations it willprobably just stay how it is
[13:46] Lewis Burford: Will osgrid still be up? I hope its not going down :(
[13:46] Nebadon Izumi: ya we probably did make oars at some point
[13:46] Lani Global: Dan, did you make the oars?
[13:46] Mercalia Beck: eh lewis?
[13:46] Nebadon Izumi: but its possible things did change a bit after that too
[13:46] dan banner: not recently lani
[13:46] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: talk is about one region lewis
[13:47] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: not the whole grid
[13:47] Lewis Burford: ok
[13:47] Zia Frimon: So, aside from the viewer recomendations, is there any other SO topics of interest changing? or changed?
[13:47] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah, I'm looking athe planner group notice now. "The last backup before the party will be done around 10 pm PDT on Thursday 19th (thats Friday 20th at 5.00 am UTC)."
[13:47] Richardus Raymaker: DOnt get lewis, "will osgrid be up ??"
[13:47] Mercalia Beck: when do i get a bigger travel centre? lol
[13:48] Selea Core: how about my question about having 1 place to look for info?
[13:48] Wordfromthe Wise: another off topic question .. on windows do we still need this appdomain=true .. i did not get the whole thread on IRC onthis topic ..
[13:48] Zia Frimon: Like maybe the terain editing engine? (hope hope LOL )
[13:48] dan banner: yes word
[13:48] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: would be nice to have an opensim.ini tweaked for windows
[13:48] Richardus Raymaker: WoW, my experience. its betetr to have appdomain = true
[13:48] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: instead of linux
[13:48] Key Gruin: Selea what would you perfer among the choices?
[13:49] Key Gruin: what do you think would be best
[13:49] Wordfromthe Wise: this consumes a lot RAM and the latest version of osgrid distro does not really remove unused RAM ..
[13:49] Selea Core: well i love the Forum because i look at it daily, but that many not be anyone elses?
[13:49] Nebadon Izumi: Arielle, the only change you need for Windows is that one setting
[13:49] Nebadon Izumi: and generally it works fine with it set to false in Windows
[13:49] Nebadon Izumi: it generally takes quite some time for people to run into issues with it set to false
[13:49] Selea Core: and the Forum covers lots of different subjects
[13:49] Nebadon Izumi: so for 99% of the grid false makes sense at the default
[13:50] Marcus Llewellyn: It would be ncie if we didn't have to look at our configs at all. ;) But that's one of the tasks every simop has to do, whatever your platform.
[13:50] Richardus Raymaker: WoW, you think it consume lots of ram. but after soome hour(s) it drops in usage
[13:50] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: ok thx Neb
[13:50] Nebadon Izumi: it would be kind of silly to have 2 versions just because of 1 ini setting
[13:50] Nebadon Izumi: and
[13:50] Nebadon Izumi: we do state in the OpenSim.ini
[13:50] Nebadon Izumi: if your on windows its best to change it to true
[13:50] Nebadon Izumi: thats not in the stock OpenSim.ini
[13:50] Nebadon Izumi: i added that to our version
[13:51] Lani Global: OSG5B Photos and Videos .... at http://forums.osgrid.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=4293
[13:51] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: what does osgrid have more of connecting to it? Win or Linux?
[13:51] Nebadon Izumi: I Think linux
[13:51] dan banner: i'd say linux
[13:51] Nebadon Izumi: though we have no way to know for sure
[13:51] Nebadon Izumi: but my gut tells me more people are using linux
[13:51] Nebadon Izumi: its cheaper
[13:51] Richardus Raymaker: btw nebadon i dont understand it, we talked some dev meeting day about the appdomein , and i where in the idea it would get AUTO setting. but not seen it back.
[13:51] Marcus Llewellyn: Linux costs a tiny bit less then Win or Win Server. ;)
[13:51] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: costs more in ram ;0
[13:51] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus, yes, we talked about it, but its not just a simple fix
[13:51] Wordfromthe Wise: ok i have it to true but the RAM usage is higher .. and i have the feeling it does not releas it back ; but i can live with it ..
[13:51] Mercalia Beck: obly problem I had with appdomain =false was with 3+ regions one simulator - scripts not running in some regions
[13:52] Nebadon Izumi: there are many more pressing issues
[13:52] Richardus Raymaker: hmm nebadon, the opensim.ini you can download from osgrid have appdomain = false
[13:52] Key Gruin: more remote servers use Linux I"d say, but more home connctions use Windows
[13:52] Nebadon Izumi: right Mercalia, the big problem is people try to run 10 regions in 1 simulator
[13:52] Key Gruin: my guess
[13:52] Nebadon Izumi: that could be very problematic with the AppDomain setting
[13:52] Selea Core: i agree with Key on that
[13:52] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: 9 regions in mega is not a problem Merc
[13:52] Richardus Raymaker: WoW it release memory back. i have tortured the system with low mmeory.
[13:52] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats probably pretty true Key
[13:52] Wordfromthe Wise: yes the opensim .ini in it has it to false but in the comment it reads for windows use true ..
[13:52] Mercalia Beck: even apdomain=true didnt really solve it
[13:52] Nebadon Izumi: right Mercalia
[13:53] Nebadon Izumi: I always tell people never run more than 1 region per simulator
[13:53] Nebadon Izumi: but not everyone wants to hear that
[13:53] Mercalia Beck: no problems in mega
[13:53] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[13:53] Wordfromthe Wise: ok rich, i will further watch this thing ...
[13:53] Richardus Raymaker: hehe, how works appdomein on mega's i anyway set it true
[13:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya mega is really just 1 region for scripts
[13:53] Nebadon Izumi: no matter how big it is
[13:53] Daniel Allen: good night all
[13:53] Mercalia Beck: bye daniel
[13:53] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: waves @Daniel
[13:53] Selea Core: nite nite Daniel
[13:53] Boba Solo: gn,..tc danial
[13:53] Nebadon Izumi: but when you are nut running megas, you are severly limiting the amount of resources available to any one region in your simulator
[13:53] Franziska Bossi: nini Daniel
[13:54] Nebadon Izumi: my recommendation has always been if your not running mega
[13:54] Boba Solo: thats why I use the LAA
[13:54] Nebadon Izumi: limit to just 1 region per simulator
[13:54] Lynne Lundquist: GN Daniel
[13:54] Wordfromthe Wise: Neb; do you think running 20 instances needs less ram that running lets say ony 5 (with 5 each) or does this depend on something like theusageof those regions ?
[13:54] Richardus Raymaker: well, i really hate to run more then 1 region on simulator. happy i dont do it. its terrible in all ways, oar, database, backup.
[13:54] Nebadon Izumi: for best performance and stability
[13:54] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: LAA?
[13:54] Nebadon Izumi: its a little more setup work and updating work
[13:54] Franziska Bossi: giggles
[13:54] Nebadon Izumi: but in the long run i suspect its actually less problems
[13:54] Boba Solo: Large Adress Awearness
[13:54] Marcus Llewellyn: There's a mantis about the scripts in a sim with multiple regions. If you're seeing that issue, might wanna contribute information to it. http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=5828
[13:54] Selea Core: i run 1 region per instance and all is just great ... so far
[13:54] Nebadon Izumi: that will only help a little Boba
[13:54] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: ahh
[13:54] Nebadon Izumi: but it can help a bit
[13:54] Key Gruin: much easier to monitor each region
[13:55] Lani Global: looking to Grid Godz.... Neb and Dan and Key.... what is the #1 issue right now for OSGrid?
[13:55] Wordfromthe Wise has .bat files for upgrading all my instances
[13:55] Nebadon Izumi: you still only get 3gb per simulator
[13:55] Boba Solo: true
[13:55] Nebadon Izumi: hmm hard to say Lani
[13:55] Nebadon Izumi: things are always changing
[13:55] Nebadon Izumi: that answer is differernt every week
[13:55] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[13:55] Boba Solo: I try to limit my regions now sence we talked about that
[13:55] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: whats the number 1 issue people come to irc about?
[13:55] Boba Solo: ports?
[13:56] Key Gruin: not being able to get to their sim
[13:56] Marcus Llewellyn: Prolly. heh
[13:56] Frank Northmead: ports
[13:56] Nebadon Izumi: ya probably networking
[13:56] Key Gruin: every day, day after day
[13:56] Richardus Raymaker: Ariell port forwarding i think
[13:56] Marcus Llewellyn: Ports or loopback
[13:56] dan banner: ya thats not a problem with osgrid
[13:56] Lynne Lundquist: port forwarding
[13:56] dan banner: thats a problem with skill level
[13:56] Zia Frimon: Win 7 does not do loop back for crap :P
[13:56] Nebadon Izumi: next would probably be teleporting
[13:56] Lani Global: overall... what affects us as residents, region owners, and as creators?
[13:56] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: logging directly to ones own sim has been challenging lately
[13:56] Nebadon Izumi: but unfortunately I think teleporting will always be problematic here
[13:56] Mercalia Beck: searching for stuff
[13:57] Nebadon Izumi: such a varying range of hardware and distances between sims
[13:57] Lynne Lundquist: Yes I agree Arielle and search
[13:57] Marcus Llewellyn: It's the nature of the beast, the price we pay for free. :)
[13:57] Nebadon Izumi: some are run by pros' some are run by people who have only run OpenSim for a week
[13:57] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[13:57] Richardus Raymaker: Mercelia. search works fine. if you have it in the viewer
[13:57] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: but why is HG more dependable then TP's?
[13:57] Shez Oyen: I would still like to see region crossing on a vehicle to be fixed, on a regular region not a mega
[13:57] Nebadon Izumi: Arielle
[13:57] Mercalia Beck: well many new ppl say that it dont work
[13:57] Nebadon Izumi: people who run HG
[13:57] Lynne Lundquist: yes me too
[13:57] Nebadon Izumi: probably have a much higher understanding of their hardware and abilities
[13:58] Key Gruin: appearance has improved tremendously in the last few months
[13:58] Key Gruin: appearance issues I mean
[13:58] Nebadon Izumi: many people on osgrid are running too many regions
[13:58] Nebadon Izumi: have horrible network connections
[13:58] Lani Global: One of the things that seems to affect us all is "Group Chat"
[13:58] Nebadon Izumi: have to much stuff on their sims
[13:58] Richardus Raymaker: hi shez, would be nice. but think make things script based very complex. to kep silent about all other things
[13:58] Franziska Bossi: eep!
[13:58] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: nods
[13:58] Mercalia Beck: fran should be here
[13:58] Mercalia Beck: oh she is
[13:58] Mercalia Beck: lol
[13:58] Nebadon Izumi: there is 1000 reasons why tp's fail
[13:58] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: lol
[13:58] Franziska Bossi: `*•.¸(`*•.¸ lool ¸.•*´)¸.•*´
[13:58] Nebadon Izumi: there is no one thing or even dozen things we can fix
[13:58] Marcus Llewellyn: And they're all OSGrid's fault! ;)
[13:58] Nebadon Izumi: that will make teleports perfect
[13:58] Franziska Bossi: mm the new hogwarts would be 250000 prims
[13:58] Nebadon Izumi: unfortunately on a grid like OSgrid
[13:59] Nebadon Izumi: teleports will never be perfect
[13:59] Taarna Welles: Peeps I have to go off. CU on Tuesday.
[13:59] Cornflakes Woodcock: I have a question concerning animated prims, maybe a bit oftopic. But I would like to create more animated stuffies but they stops working after serverupdates. Is that somthing that would be posible to fix? As it is now I have stoped creating those because of the frustration
[13:59] Franziska Bossi: not much but.......
[13:59] Nebadon Izumi: just too many variables
[13:59] Mercalia Beck: bye Taarna
[13:59] Sarah Kline: Honestly I get more failed TP's in Second LIfe these days
[13:59] Richardus Raymaker: but nebadon, the question keeps when do you have to many regions and when to many prims or not enuogh upload ?
[13:59] Shez Oyen: and hideous chat lag
[13:59] Franziska Bossi: i i see what happends if i was on one sim with 6000 prims...
[13:59] Franziska Bossi: in sl
[14:00] Franziska Bossi: super mega laag
[14:00] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: passing inventory seems to be lagging chat again
[14:00] Richardus Raymaker: TP in sl, srah. stup talking about that. its below hell
[14:00] Cornflakes Woodcock: No answer to that?
[14:00] Franziska Bossi: *•.¸ OK ¸.•*
[14:00] Franziska Bossi: think osgrid software is better then
[14:01] Lani Global: biggest issues among regular users/avatars : 1. Cloud Avatars 2. Teleporting
[14:01] dan banner: cornflakes: you can set your scriptengine folder outside the opensim tree and reuse it and states will stay the same even across updates
[14:01] Sarah Kline: Theres work being done with Bullet Physics Cornflakes that might work better for you when finished
[14:01] Selea Core: i thought problems were because of the different viewers
[14:01] Marcus Llewellyn: I can't say I share the TP problems, myself. Anytime a TP fails for me it's usually because the remote sim turns out to be down.
[14:01] Nebadon Izumi: right
[14:01] Nebadon Izumi: i dont have much trouble TP'ing either
[14:01] Sarah Kline: same Marcus
[14:01] Selea Core: the TP problems and cloud problems i mean
[14:02] Lani Global: but many people do have TP problems. often crash on TP
[14:02] Nebadon Izumi: generally when i do its because one of the sims is malfunctioning
[14:02] Franziska Bossi: i allways have tp probs because my inventar is to big
[14:02] Nebadon Izumi: either the sim im in or the destination
[14:02] Frank Northmead: many users do not understand that many regions are run by individuals and not always up. It surprises those I mention it to.
[14:02] Richardus Raymaker: indeed marcus. TP work most fine. only think sometimes that you crash after teleport. but thats maby becasue people never update enough
[14:02] Sarah Kline: or if they turned off public access in which case viewer crashes
[14:02] Lani Global: crash on TP and failure of TP... even to a good working sim
[14:02] Marcus Llewellyn: Crash on TP is more likely a viewer issue, I think
[14:02] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: plaza to plaza?
[14:02] Cornflakes Woodcock: Okey thanks Plz notify me Sarah if problem being solved ?
[14:02] Nebadon Izumi: there are many times people are telling us they can't teleport from Lbsa
[14:02] Boba Solo: I never have issues with tp here or hg
[14:02] Nebadon Izumi: the sims they are going to are fine
[14:02] Richardus Raymaker: Lani, you can blame the server side, but maby the client side have problems to
[14:03] Nebadon Izumi: it ends up being Lbsa needs a kick
[14:03] Wordfromthe Wise: and i have the feeling and some told me that when avatars have attachments with scripts they have more triubles TP ariund their regions .. must be the same like sim crossings ...
[14:03] Franziska Bossi: 76846 items i have in my inventar now
[14:03] Franziska Bossi: eep!!
[14:03] Richardus Raymaker: Sarah, the sim seems to work fine after you login after crash
[14:03] Sarah Kline: lol dont start sorting it here Franzi
[14:03] Boba Solo: omg Franzy
[14:03] Nebadon Izumi: heavily trafficed regions will have much more problems
[14:03] Nebadon Izumi: OpenSim is bugtastic still
[14:03] Franziska Bossi: thats my tp probs
[14:03] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[14:03] Franziska Bossi: `*•.¸(`*•.¸ lool ¸.•*´)¸.•*´
[14:04] Franziska Bossi: think i make an iar and delete all
[14:04] Zia Frimon: Ok guys. TY so much for all the work you all do. :) Off to real life for a while ... sigh Hugs
[14:04] Nebadon Izumi: and sometimes when we start fixing bugs
[14:04] Nebadon Izumi: we create new problems
[14:04] Nebadon Izumi: its a roller coaster ride for sure
[14:04] Richardus Raymaker: first thing that would be good, if people stop useing scripted AO's its not needed anymore
[14:04] Mercalia Beck: bye zia
[14:04] Franziska Bossi: Neb what happend if i delte 76000 items at one time?
[14:04] Selea Core: waves to Zia
[14:04] Sarah Kline: bye Zia
[14:04] Key Gruin: lol an IAR that size will be dozens of gb :)
[14:04] Boba Solo: look how far we(you and dev) have come in the last year
[14:04] Franziska Bossi: jupp
[14:04] Nebadon Izumi: it would take a while Franziska
[14:04] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[14:04] Lani Global: for the average person... they see Clouds or find themselves seen as Clouds... that discourages them greately. hopefully, with new "Opensim Supported Viewers" we can fix that
[14:04] Franziska Bossi: *-*? LmAo HaHaAhAhaa? *-*
[14:04] Franziska Bossi: jupp
[14:05] Boba Solo: just remember 7.1
[14:05] Franziska Bossi: think i change my ava
[14:05] Wordfromthe Wise: sometimes the viwer say TP was not possible ; to just stand there 10 sec later and the viewer than crashes .. sometimes i do not get to the target region but the viewerhas picked up the lands say/night settings or the radio stream and i am on the originating region
[14:05] Lewis Burford: How longs the meeting on for, just wondering.
[14:05] Franziska Bossi: thats better
[14:05] Nebadon Izumi: its hard to say
[14:05] Lewis Burford: I'm lagging really bad.
[14:05] Nebadon Izumi: LL is going to switch over to Server Side baking soon
[14:05] Mercalia Beck: until olympics are over
[14:05] Nebadon Izumi: that could be very problematic for us
[14:05] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: 1 hour lewis
[14:05] Marcus Llewellyn: Right now, it's probably not worth it for the devs to tinker too much with avatar appearance stuff, as LL is gonna be mixing that up in the next 6 months ot so.
[14:05] Nebadon Izumi: that may completely stop OpenSim Viewer dev
[14:05] Nebadon Izumi: once that happens
[14:05] Nebadon Izumi: until we can figure out how to replace that
[14:05] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: thought they already had Neb
[14:05] Richardus Raymaker: WoW, that sounds like the crash i mean
[14:06] Nebadon Izumi: no
[14:06] Lewis Burford: Mercalia the olympics were over a few days ago.
[14:06] Nebadon Izumi: they have not Arielle
[14:06] Nebadon Izumi: they havent even started testing that yet
[14:06] Mercalia Beck: ? lewis?
[14:06] Lewis Burford: Yes?
[14:06] Mercalia Beck: still on here
[14:06] Nebadon Izumi: its many months off still
[14:06] Wordfromthe Wise: Ok Rich ..
[14:06] Nebadon Izumi: we'll eventually figure it out
[14:06] Nebadon Izumi: but
[14:06] Richardus Raymaker: and then we still have the server side bakleing that comes in sl
[14:06] Lani Global: i've been advocating server side baking for a year or more
[14:06] Nebadon Izumi: it may force the TPV devs to stop development on a OpenSim viewer
[14:07] Nebadon Izumi: or they will need to code all the viewer side baking stuff back into newer viewer source
[14:07] Nebadon Izumi: we'll see
[14:07] Wordfromthe Wise shudders .. no do not stop viewer dev ..
[14:07] Nebadon Izumi: im speculating
[14:07] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: that is in the cards
[14:07] Lewis Burford: It probably ended on august 1st cause i'm in uk.
[14:07] Franziska Bossi: mm we cannot make a osgri viewer only for here?
[14:07] Mercalia Beck: Hippo+
[14:07] Franziska Bossi: nope
[14:07] Nebadon Izumi: we could but getting people to volunteer to do that
[14:07] Nebadon Izumi: is not easy
[14:07] Nebadon Izumi: 90% of the viewer devs
[14:07] Richardus Raymaker: Franzi, if you find a box with devs
[14:07] Selea Core: i'm needed in RL ... thank you Neb, Dan and Key for taking the time ... bye bye everyone ... till next time :)
[14:08] Nebadon Izumi: are commited to SL
[14:08] Nebadon Izumi: before OpenSim
[14:08] Mercalia Beck: bye selea
[14:08] Franziska Bossi: mm let me think
[14:08] Nebadon Izumi: viewer work is not easy
[14:08] Lewis Burford: Bye slea!
[14:08] Key Gruin: tc Selea
[14:08] Boba Solo: even Arwin?
[14:08] Nebadon Izumi: its 100 times harder than the server side
[14:08] Nebadon Izumi: no
[14:08] Lewis Burford: goodbye selea!
[14:08] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: not like they make money from their viewer deving in s/l
[14:08] Nebadon Izumi: Armin is commited to opensim
[14:08] Lani Global: well, 99% of the viewer market is sl
[14:08] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah. A lot of people bang the drum of getting free of SL with out own viewer. That's very easy to say... a lot more difficult to do.
[14:08] Boba Solo: nice
[14:08] Nebadon Izumi: but thats just 1 dev
[14:08] Franziska Bossi: on Hippo side a warning that you cannot use the viewer code for opensim
[14:08] Nebadon Izumi: there are others too
[14:08] Franziska Bossi: only sl
[14:08] Nebadon Izumi: but their time is very limited
[14:08] Nebadon Izumi: SL probably has 20-30 people commited to viewer development
[14:08] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[14:09] Nebadon Izumi: full paid staff
[14:09] Franziska Bossi: or we needs the emerald back
[14:09] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: in LL
[14:09] Nebadon Izumi: eww
[14:09] Franziska Bossi: emerald viewer
[14:09] Nebadon Izumi: Emerald was a disaster
[14:09] Wordfromthe Wise thinks: i visited SL and all i got is this lousy viewer ?
[14:09] Franziska Bossi: yes
[14:09] Richardus Raymaker: so you need 60 for opensim viewer to get the same speed. and try to keep 60 people work togheter smooth is otehr story
[14:09] Franziska Bossi: but complete new styled......
[14:09] Shez Oyen: LOL Word!
[14:09] Franziska Bossi: mm
[14:09] Nebadon Izumi: we just need to be patient
[14:10] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer development will go slow
[14:10] Franziska Bossi: jupp
[14:10] Nebadon Izumi: it will literally take years to develop a new viewer
[14:10] Nebadon Izumi: say one not tied to SL code
[14:10] Nebadon Izumi: your talking about many years
[14:10] Nebadon Izumi: before its useable
[14:10] Wordfromthe Wise: and what about this "OPENGL movement" if it can be called a movement
[14:10] Nebadon Izumi: not sure what you mean
[14:10] Nebadon Izumi: the sl viewer is OpenGL
[14:10] Franziska Bossi: i will ask someone he has coded a seperate viewer
[14:10] Wordfromthe Wise: viewer in a html page .
[14:11] Franziska Bossi: fo his grid allsoi
[14:11] Nebadon Izumi: oh WebGL
[14:11] Key Gruin: webgl
[14:11] Wordfromthe Wise: sorry yes
[14:11] Nebadon Izumi: thats a whole different story
[14:11] Wordfromthe Wise: stupid me
[14:11] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[14:11] Nebadon Izumi: WebGL has major limitations
[14:11] Key Gruin: its the wave of the future IMHO
[14:11] Nebadon Izumi: one problem right now is SL and OpenSIm are heavily dependant on UDP
[14:11] Nebadon Izumi: the web browsers have zero support for UDP
[14:11] Wordfromthe Wise: ah ok ..
[14:11] Nebadon Izumi: so opensimulator would need massive changes
[14:11] Nebadon Izumi: not impossible, but its a pretty large undertaking
[14:12] Richardus Raymaker: something else nebadon, are maptiles not deleted anymore from regions that are shutdown ?
[14:12] Nebadon Izumi: but WebGL support is not good either
[14:12] Nebadon Izumi: very few peoples machines can run WebGL right now
[14:12] Key Gruin: adapting WebGL would basically mean starting over from scratch I think
[14:12] Richardus Raymaker: oh no, not a webbrowser based viewer, that would be terrible
[14:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[14:12] Nebadon Izumi: then we also have issues with the building tools etc..
[14:12] Key Gruin: I think it would be great
[14:12] Nebadon Izumi: go try Cloud Party
[14:12] Nebadon Izumi: and you'll see what i mean
[14:12] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[14:12] Sarah Kline: well look at the graphics on cloud party
[14:12] Nebadon Izumi: Cloud Party is a fairly good start
[14:12] Sarah Kline: snap
[14:13] Nebadon Izumi: but its hardly a replacement
[14:13] Wordfromthe Wise: i have ; me not like it besides it is nice ...
[14:13] Nebadon Izumi: its super frustrating
[14:13] Lani Global: i believe, a basic viewer within a web browser would open up opensim tremendously, to a whole new generation of users.
[14:13] Richardus Raymaker: wel as long you dont need a webbrowser to use it..
[14:13] Nebadon Izumi: either way, its a large undertaking
[14:13] Lani Global: even if that viewer could not create much
[14:13] Nebadon Izumi: Cloud Party has a few years of development ahead before they are displacing SL
[14:13] Lani Global: just go into a world, and see it
[14:13] dan banner: just uploading a usable texture in cloud party took me 2 days to figure out
[14:13] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: we may see a new user drop with what S/L is doing
[14:14] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say
[14:14] dan banner: had to create a material
[14:14] Lani Global: a web viewer, even a plugin, would be wonderful...
[14:14] Nebadon Izumi: I think the average SL users is not effected
[14:14] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: as most new users are from there
[14:14] Boba Solo: I see folks advertizing in sl to move to OSgrid
[14:14] Nebadon Izumi: it may be more viable to make a viewer only web plugin
[14:14] Nebadon Izumi: no build tools
[14:14] Boba Solo: on Utube
[14:14] Mercalia Beck: oh bob
[14:14] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm not convinced a web viewer is essential. I don't ahve anything against one, but MMOs tend to be quite successful while relying on native aps.
[14:14] Nebadon Izumi: you can just come in and explore a bit
[14:14] stiofain nbmcmedia: agree lani i want one where u cant build at all and basic av just as long as renders textures and prims it will let lots of ppl have a look
[14:14] Nebadon Izumi: if you want to do more have to download a proper viewer
[14:14] Nebadon Izumi: but also
[14:14] Nebadon Izumi: in the web viewer
[14:15] Nebadon Izumi: you loose things like Voice
[14:15] Richardus Raymaker: for firefox , its easy to make a screendump with all steps you need to enable the gridlogin
[14:15] Nebadon Izumi: Shoutcast
[14:15] Lani Global: the only reason "most new opensim users" are from SL is that we use SL viewrs.
[14:15] Nebadon Izumi: there are many things that just do not work well in the browser that we rely on here
[14:15] Sarah Kline: even with a web viewer you have to wait for things to load in
[14:15] Richardus Raymaker: oops firestorm
[14:15] Lani Global: if we had a web viewer, "most new opensim users" would be from our websites
[14:15] Richardus Raymaker: always mix both
[14:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya beleive me if the Web Browser was a viable option I think we would already be seeing attempts to make a OpenSIm web browser viewer
[14:16] Nebadon Izumi: but the few attempts I have seen
[14:16] Franziska Bossi: what is with realexxtend viewer?
[14:16] Nebadon Izumi: are all pretty terrible
[14:16] Nebadon Izumi: realxtend does not work with opensim
[14:16] Nebadon Izumi: realxtend is no longer opensim based
[14:16] Marcus Llewellyn: realXtend has forked way WAY off from opensim.
[14:16] Nebadon Izumi: hasnt been for a while
[14:16] stiofain nbmcmedia: yea and they wud have a look and go wow and ask how do i see more and answer is dload a "real" client
[14:16] Lani Global: we are growing into a world where desktop gaming machines will be rare.
[14:16] Nebadon Izumi: realxtend is also super frustrating
[14:16] Richardus Raymaker: besides i cant believe that a webbased browser is fats. besided other webpages or wrong
[X] clicks close or mess wityh the viewer
[14:17] Lani Global: most people will be using pads
[14:17] Mercalia Beck: hehehe
[14:17] Mercalia Beck: not mer
[14:17] Richardus Raymaker: Lani, the mobile (sorry) crap, sucks with heavy 3d
[14:17] Lani Global: are we destined to go the way of the dinosaurs?
[14:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya, Second Life and OpenSim will have a very hard time adapting to tablets
[14:17] stiofain nbmcmedia: soo needs "lite" 3d
[14:17] Nebadon Izumi: imagine trying to navigate the world with no mouse or keyboard
[14:17] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[14:17] Lani Global: go pads or die.
[14:18] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: if they have it on phones...
[14:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Tablet GPUs will continue to improve.
[14:18] Sarah Kline: i would not want to point and click to move around )
[14:18] Nebadon Izumi: I dont think Virtual Worlds will see huge success on tablets
[14:18] Richardus Raymaker: thats why LL invented that irritanting click and walk
[14:18] Nebadon Izumi: until their interfaces drastically improve
[14:18] Nebadon Izumi: i hate tablets myself
[14:18] Doby Daenger: new microsoft pad comes with keyboard
[14:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya but its still a bit clumsy
[14:18] Richardus Raymaker: Doby, its still a tablet. and the are useless. for 90%
[14:18] Nebadon Izumi: you cant sit with the Microsoft Surface on your lap
[14:18] dan banner: tablets are a little underpowered for VW
[14:18] Lani Global: if we don't start building a framework for tablets/pads to at least be able to visit our metaverse, then we will have no growth.
[14:18] Nebadon Izumi: and use the keyboard and mouse easily
[14:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Sure ya can, Neb.
[14:19] Richardus Raymaker: besides, how do i connect the backpack with extra battery's to tablket ?
[14:19] Doby Daenger: yah one version i thought was with windows 8
[14:19] Nebadon Izumi: well I mean like a laptop Marcus
[14:19] Nebadon Izumi: the hinge has no resitance
[14:19] Nebadon Izumi: it has a kick stand
[14:19] Marcus Llewellyn: http://microsoft-news.com/microsoft-surface-reviewed/
[14:19] Nebadon Izumi: good luck with that on your lap
[14:19] Doby Daenger: ah i c
[14:19] Sarah Kline: night all
[14:19] Marcus Llewellyn: G'nite, Sarah
[14:19] Franziska Bossi: mm Astra viewer is not a sl iewr
[14:19] Nebadon Izumi: and really the surface is designed to not really use a mouse
[14:19] Boba Solo: tc gn Sarah
[14:19] Nebadon Izumi: though technically you could
[14:20] stiofain nbmcmedia: the functions in lumina wud be enuff if it was in a browser window
[14:20] Nebadon Izumi: but if your relying on the touch screen
[14:20] Richardus Raymaker: the new number one medical problem. burned body parts
[14:20] Nebadon Izumi: that could get frustrating
[14:20] Doby Daenger: ah dumbed down computer lol
[14:20] Doby Daenger: i had high hopes for it o well
[14:20] Nebadon Izumi: things are going to have to change drastically for touch screens
[14:20] Richardus Raymaker: and the windows8 tablet is arm to
[14:20] Nebadon Izumi: the SL interface will just not work
[14:20] Nebadon Izumi: without a mouse
[14:20] Nebadon Izumi: you need right click
[14:20] Doby Daenger: but hardcore "gamers" they don't play with broweser
[14:20] Marcus Llewellyn: It's hard enough to use with a touchpad. :P
[14:21] Nebadon Izumi: even in Cloud Party, you are heavily reliant on right click
[14:21] Doby Daenger: ya we need holographic controls already
[14:21] Nebadon Izumi: exploring on a tablet might be more reasonable
[14:21] dan banner: thought waves lol
[14:21] Lani Global: SL-based viewers and opensim technology is a standard developed for best use with desktops. Sure, gamer laptops can be included in that now, but by and large we are channeling ourselves into being obsolete within the next few years if we don't embrace tablets/pads.
[14:21] Nebadon Izumi: but when you get into building and scripting
[14:21] Nebadon Izumi: a tablet is a horrible place to be doing that
[14:21] Doby Daenger: they have those in japan with robots dan > youtube creepy
[14:22] Lani Global: the creators will continue to use power machines.
[14:22] Marcus Llewellyn: Heh. Desktops and laptops aren't going anywhere. Tablets are only augmenting the market, not replacing it.
[14:22] Boba Solo: http://lightblueoptics.com/
[14:22] Lani Global: but the users , our target market for our worlds, will be on pads/tablets
[14:22] Nebadon Izumi: I think building will always be relagated to a more ergonmic environment
[14:22] Nebadon Izumi: that doesnt mean they wont be touch surfaces etc..
[14:22] Doby Daenger: theres rudimentary conroller u can make objects mice
[14:22] Nebadon Izumi: i just dont think it will be a tablet you hold in one hand
[14:22] Nebadon Izumi: and control with the other
[14:22] Nebadon Izumi: creating requires both hands
[14:23] Mercalia Beck: need some kind of joystick control
[14:23] dan banner: imagine having half the users in sl or here on the tablet or ? walking and driving will trying to dance at a club
[14:23] Richardus Raymaker: Lani, i think people go build in future maby fatser with kenetic in fron of a big 42" tv then on tablet :)
[14:23] Lani Global: power users: creators.... will need to continue on "power machines" but users wont
[14:23] Wordfromthe Wise: or like this VR gear in the movies ; with Data Gloves ?
[14:23] Frank Northmead: lani I agree
[14:23] Lani Global: RR i agree with that too
[14:23] Nebadon Izumi: its like trying to use Blender while you hold your keyboard in 1 hand
[14:23] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: i think mice and keyboards will be replaced by voice commands
[14:23] Doby Daenger: mebe price go down then lol
[14:23] dan banner: ya
[14:23] Nebadon Izumi: i dunno Arielle
[14:23] dan banner: lol neb
[14:23] Nebadon Izumi: maybe for certain things
[14:23] Doby Daenger: thought commands lol
[14:24] Nebadon Izumi: but imagine controlling blender or SL with your voice
[14:24] Nebadon Izumi: trying to move a cube
[14:24] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[14:24] Marcus Llewellyn shudders.
[14:24] Mercalia Beck: hehe use Logo to control avatar?
[14:24] Richardus Raymaker: VerArielle, Very good change. new TV you can already yell to
[14:24] Doby Daenger: virtual keyboards
[14:24] Richardus Raymaker: up up up left left rotate 90
[14:24] Nebadon Izumi: if anything it will be a mix of things
[14:24] Mercalia Beck: would be use full
[14:24] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: and there is mouse movements with eyes or nose through cams
[14:24] Nebadon Izumi: I think tablets are strictly consumer devices
[14:25] dan banner: ya a tablet you plug into a mouse, keyboard and monitor
[14:25] Nebadon Izumi: hand held tablets
[14:25] Doby Daenger: there is a program that works like that arielle
[14:25] Lani Global: it is a similar thing with using Blender or other 3D programs... they require "power machines" similar to what we need for good effects here in OpenSim viewers... but more and more there are fewer people who have access to those machines! it is a devolution really.
[14:25] Marcus Llewellyn: Left relative to what? How far up?
[14:25] dan banner: might as well use a desktop
[14:25] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: i have a couple apps
[14:25] Richardus Raymaker: Tablets are just good to read books and news on. maby watch tv.
[14:25] Richardus Raymaker: not soemthing to work with
[14:25] Mercalia Beck: or in Star Trek
[14:25] Doby Daenger: it works with colord objects recognize them then u can put em on yer fingers if you want
[14:25] Doby Daenger: forgot what it was called
[14:25] dan banner: if you want a tablet VW theres always 3Di
[14:25] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: you will eat those words Rira ;)
[14:25] Lani Global: a tablet would be fine for getting around in a virtual world and interacting with people via text or voice.
[14:26] Boba Solo: tablets are way expensive and are junk compared to a small desk top
[14:26] Frank Northmead: Arielle, I agree
[14:26] Nebadon Izumi: a tablet can certainly augment creation tools
[14:26] Doby Daenger: there were sample little games with it
[14:26] Boba Solo: and a smart phone is handy
[14:26] Nebadon Izumi: but a tablet on its own
[14:26] Nebadon Izumi: is not a very conducive creation envitonment for 3D
[14:26] Lani Global: @Boba, that is not the opinion of the masses.
[14:26] Boba Solo: true
[14:26] Kahn Khalim: sidenote: please rebake people, I see alot of clouds.. (unless it's just me :P)
[14:26] Doby Daenger: would like to see TRUE VR evolve
[14:26] Boba Solo: lot of sucker born at night too
[14:26] Nebadon Izumi: i mean many 3D creators already use tablets
[14:26] Marcus Llewellyn: Google's Nexus 7 seems suprisingly 3D capable for $199. It won't do awesome eyecandy, but it's pretty capable.
[14:26] Nebadon Izumi: for 20 years
[14:26] Doby Daenger: glasses gyroscope
[14:26] stiofain nbmcmedia: so is why a basic viewer with no build functions is needed
[14:26] Nebadon Izumi: they use drawing tablets
[14:26] Eliopod Beaumont: ®
[14:26] Nebadon Izumi: hooked into their desktop machine
[14:27] Eliopod Beaumont: ®
[14:27] Boba Solo: drop one
[14:27] Boba Solo: I have two now droped
[14:27] Boba Solo: kids
[14:27] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[14:27] Boba Solo: I wont buy any more
[14:27] Boba Solo: the glass breaks and there done
[14:27] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: just think were we were 10 years ago then add 10 years ;)
[14:28] Nebadon Izumi: ya things will improve in time
[14:28] Lani Global: Look, most of us here are creators. We need power machines. But if we don't just want all our work to be "in a vacuum" , then we must embrace the zeitgeist... the new world of how most people will be using the internet and the metaverse over the next few years.
[14:28] Marcus Llewellyn: We're all sorta preaching to the choir here anyway. It's not us we need to convince about this stuff. It's TPVs or othe potential viewer devs.
[14:28] Doby Daenger: i did it once in the 90s they had them in theater u put on glaseses and where u turn your head u see the 3d wha happint?
[14:28] Richardus Raymaker: a tablet is good as reading device. not soemthing to write on. unless you havea seperate keyboard. bu then you can betetr buy a normal desktop pc
[14:28] Boba Solo: I agree Lani
[14:28] stiofain nbmcmedia: agree* lani
[14:28] dan banner: lani: snap pics and put em on facebook
[14:28] Nebadon Izumi: on major issue with tablets too
[14:28] Nebadon Izumi: is they all have very different development paths
[14:29] Nebadon Izumi: its not like you can just make something that works on a Android
[14:29] Cornflakes Woodcock: Okey godnighty all and it was fun to be here for a while
[14:29] Frank Northmead: It is always easy to say why something wont work, until it does.
[14:29] Nebadon Izumi: that will just work on iOS etc..
[14:29] Wordfromthe Wise: and there is always teh option of doing great machinima they can watch on their tablets and come in world and see for themselfs ..
[14:29] Lani Global: dan: /me is not yet assimilated by FaceBorg.
[14:29] Nebadon Izumi: there is soo much fragmentation in the tablet market
[14:29] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: i talk to my android and it is pretty accurate in following my commands
[14:29] Boba Solo: tc frank
[14:29] stiofain nbmcmedia: lumina works pretty cool on android
[14:29] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: tc Frank
[14:29] Doby Daenger: by corny
[14:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya Lumiya is pretty cool
[14:29] Boba Solo: yes stio
[14:29] Nebadon Izumi: but its also super frustrating
[14:29] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[14:29] Boba Solo: yes I love it
[14:29] Marcus Llewellyn: Cyaa Cornflakes.
[14:29] Doby Daenger: i say shoot for what is after fad tablet
[14:29] Nebadon Izumi: its too new though
[14:29] Boba Solo: to check in
[14:29] Nebadon Izumi: it will get better
[14:30] Nebadon Izumi: its certainly better than a text only viewer
[14:30] Doby Daenger: interface to make 3d more realistic
[14:30] Boba Solo: yupp
[14:30] Nebadon Izumi: I was surprised to find out that Lumiya is Java
[14:30] stiofain nbmcmedia: but is also better as a first look at vws than even the best machinima
[14:30] Boba Solo: oh wow
[14:30] Richardus Raymaker: well, that makes it more easy to run on many platforms
[14:30] Nebadon Izumi: maybe
[14:30] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[14:31] Nebadon Izumi: cross platofrm really complicates things
[14:31] Nebadon Izumi: there are some good tools
[14:31] Nebadon Izumi: but when you get into rendering graphics
[14:31] Nebadon Izumi: thats a whole other story
[14:31] Boba Solo: much better than mobil grid client
[14:31] Lani Global: For years we have been riding the Second Life wave... but now that Linden Labs has been into negative growth, we may suffer the same fate as SL... unless we do something to change our present course of technology access to the masses.
[14:31] Boba Solo: here here
[14:31] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: good point Lani
[14:31] Nebadon Izumi: ya perhaps
[14:31] Nebadon Izumi: we were never trying to compete with SL though
[14:31] Doby Daenger: i say youtube vids
[14:32] Richardus Raymaker: i think SL suffer becasue the prices. and the lack of backups etc.
[14:32] Marcus Llewellyn: I dunno. If SL really did fold, I have feeling OSGrid and other grids would see one huge surge of interest from refugees, if nothing else.
[14:32] Doby Daenger: people love em
[14:32] Marcus Llewellyn: I'm not even sure OSGrid would survive such a surge of interest. lol
[14:32] Nebadon Izumi: heh probably not
[14:32] stiofain nbmcmedia: adopting lumina as osgs reccomended viewer for droid platform mite be a good start?
[14:32] Lani Global: we are not in competition with SL... however, we have been using the SL viewers. and that has painted us into a small corner.
[14:32] Marcus Llewellyn: VWs are a niche, period.
[14:32] Marcus Llewellyn: SL or whetaver.
[14:32] Nebadon Izumi: ya I have thought about it stiofain
[14:33] Lani Global: we have great benefits with it. but also we share the destiny.
[14:33] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: yes stio if you could buy it from other then google play
[14:33] stiofain nbmcmedia: they are a niche now marcus
[14:33] Richardus Raymaker: still i think opensim can be a base for more virtual/holodeck type development in future
[14:33] Nebadon Izumi: I think it needs to mature just a little bit more
[14:33] Nebadon Izumi: see how the next version is
[14:33] Boba Solo: I bought it once and upgraded for free
[14:33] Boba Solo: for me
[14:33] Nebadon Izumi: ya all upgrades are free
[14:33] Boba Solo: love it
[14:34] Nebadon Izumi: I am running it on my Samsung Galaxy Android Player 4.0
[14:34] Nebadon Izumi: its an MP3 Player
[14:34] Nebadon Izumi: that runs Android Gingerbread
[14:34] Boba Solo: nice
[14:34] stiofain nbmcmedia: is great to see anyone even making a minimal income from os use
[14:34] Boba Solo: can check regions or function anywhere
[14:35] dan banner: what kind of fps does luminya get?
[14:35] Doby Daenger: Richardus yes virtual/holodeck lets go lol
[14:35] Nebadon Izumi: its slow on my hardware
[14:35] Nebadon Izumi: it depends on your device hardware
[14:35] Nebadon Izumi: my device is pretty slow
[14:35] Nebadon Izumi: it can play most of the android games though
[14:35] Key Gruin: you can run an Android emulater on your PC and try lumiya for kicks hehe
[14:35] Marcus Llewellyn: If it were ported to iOS could prolly be pretty damn zippy on the latest ipad.
[14:35] Nebadon Izumi: i would say i get maybe 8-10fps
[14:35] Nebadon Izumi: that might even be high
[14:36] Nebadon Izumi: it depends on the sim too
[14:36] Nebadon Izumi: my draw distance is only like 48m
[14:36] Nebadon Izumi: or something
[14:36] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[14:36] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: probably still better to use my team viewer to computer running viewer
[14:36] Boba Solo: same here
[14:36] dan banner: ya i dont really see how 2 or 3 fps on a mobil device while driving on the 405 will provide a very rich user experience
[14:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[14:36] Nebadon Izumi: well
[14:36] Key Gruin: hehe
[14:36] Nebadon Izumi: its mostly just so you can navigate to a place
[14:36] Nebadon Izumi: and sit down
[14:36] dan banner: ya
[14:36] Lani Global: what about a "Server Viewer"? perhaps something like that could be mashed up
[14:36] Nebadon Izumi: you cant really interact with anything
[14:36] Nebadon Izumi: but sit
[14:36] Doby Daenger: the 405 lol
[14:36] Nebadon Izumi: and when you chat
[14:36] Nebadon Izumi: you have to close the 3D viewer
[14:37] Nebadon Izumi: the chat page is 2D only
[14:37] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: oh sort of like radegast
[14:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[14:37] Richardus Raymaker: wow, what a virtual world experience :\
[14:37] Boba Solo: but still all alone out in the forest its way kool
[14:37] Nebadon Izumi: well its a phone
[14:37] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[14:37] stiofain nbmcmedia: i think it is not about a rich user experience more a quick look and basic function that will encourage ppl to investigate further
[14:37] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: hehe Bob the keeper of the forewst
[14:37] Marcus Llewellyn: You can chat in radegasts 3d view.
[14:37] Nebadon Izumi: ya its mostly just a way to chat
[14:37] Boba Solo: yes
[14:37] Nebadon Izumi: in a 3d environment
[14:37] Boba Solo: yes
[14:37] Nebadon Izumi: it lets you visualioze the sim
[14:37] Nebadon Izumi: so you can walk over to a seat
[14:37] Nebadon Izumi: then sit down
[14:37] Nebadon Izumi: or stand near the group and face them
[14:37] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[14:38] Boba Solo: yes and talk to all your friends
[14:38] Boba Solo: I had the bst vacation this year with it
[14:38] Nebadon Izumi: movement is relateively easy
[14:38] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: well i would hate to try to walk around here atm on my computer ;)
[14:38] Lani Global: with that, and maybe a screen capture every 10 seconds, it could be made
[14:38] Nebadon Izumi: i logged in here
[14:38] stiofain nbmcmedia: we had shoutcast stream running with it
[14:38] Nebadon Izumi: let me show you
[14:39] Lani Global: last year, we had 2-way video between Lani region and a club in SL
[14:39] Lani Global: we had many people at that party
[14:39] Boba Solo: omg kool
[14:39] Lani Global: with 2 way video and text
[14:39] Han Held: pardon me o.o
[14:39] Richardus Raymaker: smooth
[14:39] Han Held: I missed all the fun :\
[14:39] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/SC20120706-055805.png
[14:40] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/SC20120706-055900.png
[14:40] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/SC20120706-060048.png
[14:40] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/SC20120706-061205.png
[14:40] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/SC20120706-061226.png
[14:40] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/SC20120706-061434.png
[14:40] Richardus Raymaker: eeuw, thats not 1 reason to look further. i would instant stop useing that proram
[14:40] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/SC20120706-061558.png
[14:41] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/screenshots/SC20120706-063227.png
[14:41] Nebadon Izumi: heh well
[14:41] Nebadon Izumi: its very new
[14:41] Nebadon Izumi: also its on a phone
[14:41] Nebadon Izumi: very low power hardware
[14:41] Marcus Llewellyn: For what it is, it looks pretty impressive to me.
[14:41] Nebadon Izumi: its like 1/100th as fast as my desktop
[14:41] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[14:41] Marcus Llewellyn: I cna't say I'd *pay* for it, but its kinda cool.
[14:41] stiofain nbmcmedia: and point is like lani said it isnt for power users
[14:41] Nebadon Izumi: its only 3$
[14:41] Lani Global: we had near real time video RP Mashup Party 2-way video + chat OSGrid<->SL (2 August 2011)
[14:41] Marcus Llewellyn: I know. I'm cheap. :)
[14:41] Nebadon Izumi: i figured i was helping pay for development
[14:42] Nebadon Izumi: i wasnt buying it
[14:42] Nebadon Izumi: i was just helping them develop it
[14:42] Lani Global: with video on prim
[14:42] Richardus Raymaker: i cant run anything on phone, looks happy
[14:43] Marcus Llewellyn: I only have a landline. It has an upsetting lack of apps. ;)
[14:43] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[14:43] Nebadon Izumi: i actually bought my android device for skype
[14:43] stiofain nbmcmedia: id love to be able to embed lumina standard graphix and functions in a web page
[14:43] Marcus Llewellyn: Althought I can play music on it if I hit the buttons in the right order.
[14:43] Nebadon Izumi: its kind of like my smart cordless phone
[14:43] Lani Global: some info about that 2-way SL / OSG video http://www.slenquirer.com/2011/08/rp-mashup-was-awesome-sorry-if-you-were.html
[14:43] Richardus Raymaker: well, her ein country the dont like skype. and try to block it or let you pay more
[14:43] Richardus Raymaker: besides datatraffic is limited to
[14:43] Marcus Llewellyn: I"m seriously eyeballing the Nexus 7 right now. That would work good with skype.
[14:44] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: can do any voip phone on android with apps
[14:44] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: not just skype
[14:44] Marcus Llewellyn: I just wish the thing had an SD slot. That's my only grumble.
[14:45] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: pay through the nose for any features like that through a landline ;)
[14:45] Marcus Llewellyn: I have Ooma for my landline. They have an android app.
[14:47] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: ok i think we have the future of virtual worlds decided on so off i go :)
[14:47] Arielle.Popstar @bound2.dyndns.org: waves
[14:47] Marcus Llewellyn: Cya Arielle.
[14:47] dan banner: cool
[14:47] dan banner: glad thats settled
[14:47] stiofain nbmcmedia: lol ari
[14:47] Nebadon Izumi: afk a second, on the phone
[14:47] Nebadon Izumi: sort of distracted
[14:47] stiofain nbmcmedia: android? lol
[14:48] Lani Global: yes, we are fully in 100% agreement with everyone.
[14:48] Marcus Llewellyn: I dunno. I seem to see a lot of gloom and doom lately on the blogospehere and whatnot... I don't think it's really deserved, though.
[14:48] Lani Global: blogosphere thrives on it.
[14:49] Lani Global: blogs get more eyeballs and comments for negativity than positivity
[14:49] stiofain nbmcmedia: is a lot of upbeat positive stuff too
[14:49] Marcus Llewellyn: True enuff.
[14:49] Lewis Burford: I'm guessing the meeting is over lol
[14:49] Boba Solo: Bit rusty.see me?
[14:49] Lani Global: Good, its decided!
[14:49] Lani Global: 100% agreement on all issues. How wonderful!
[14:50] stiofain nbmcmedia: i think was ageement on few things
[14:50] stiofain nbmcmedia: more than usual lol
[14:50] Lani Global: onward and upward
[14:50] Lani Global: embrace change
[14:51] Lewis Burford: Feels like the metting has ended!
[14:51] Lewis Burford: meeting*
[14:51] Lani Global rises from her seat
[14:51] stiofain nbmcmedia: feel free to raise a new subject lewis
[14:52] Richardus Raymaker: sorry, looking or better finding some old memories